Dont pay for fire service, watch your house burn

I think that if governments actually did what they should be doing with the tax money they receive communities wouldn't need to charge these types of fees to their residents. If government got out of every area of lives they have absolutely no business being in, there would be huge savings.

Examples please.

All you get when you break down shit is more shit.

Stupidly and erroneously? You mean, like when the guy refused to pay the $500 service fee several instances before where the fire crew had shown up to put out fires? Would that be the stupid and erroneous, yet somehow amazingly accurate, almost precient statement to which you are referring?

The only unsupported claims are the ones coming out your ass. You've made the egregious error of assuming your words are correct merely because you state them. You presented nothing to support your conclusions, so don't pretend they must be true because you had your head so far up your ass as to smell them coming a mile away.

So you're saying that even though he didn't pay the paltry $75 at the grave risk of his home catching fire and burning to the ground, which nearly happened several times but was halted in time because of the quick work at the Fire Department's expense, he'd surely pay thousands of dollars when it seemed his house would be at risk by something not even nearly as immediate and life threatening as a raging inferno? Is that the horse you're backing, there?

And if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon. That is not how the local government has it worked out, and most people seem to like the system in place as it is.

If he did really forget to pay the fee than that's just really shitty.

We're all human and we make mistakes.

Also of interest is if the city receives state grant money for fire services. If so they were in the wrong since his taxes went to help pay for their fire program.

I'd rather live in the South than that bankrupt communist shithole you call home.

First off, there are only about 40,000 residents in the county. Figure out how much it would cost to start up and maintain a fire department capable of responding over 555 square miles and then figure out how much in taxes each household would have to pay. The cost would be astronomical.

In fact the residents of Obion County had NO fire protection until the subscription service was offered in 1990.

There is a website: http://troy.troytn.com/ocfire.htm that details why they use the subscription service and that 63% of all calls are for RURAL service who pays 0 taxes for the services. There was also a comment by the firechief of another department who said that collecting fees after the fact has not worked out as people seem to "forget" to pay their fees once the crisis has passed. For every additional bill, bill collector, legal fee you pay there is that much less money to fund your department.

They have attempted to get the county to incorporate all the city FD and pay for it with property taxes, but the elected officials and the residents chose not to. It's their property, their decision.

This guy didn't "forget" to pay. He admitted that he knew he hadn't paid, but thought they would show up anyway. I know I would be highly upset if it were my house, but as I recently learned regarding insurance....

It's not important until it's important.

Yep, said State Farm to the poor sap whose car was totaled, but had forgotten to pray his premium for the year.

The state is far from bankrupt since total debt to GDP is around 10%. The main reason why the state budget is always out of balance is because of the "reforms" the GOP passed in the 1980's such as requiring a 2/3rds majority to pass a budget, raise taxes, or cut spending. It's not surprising that you can get 1/3rd to oppose anything no matter how logical or common sense it is.

Either way our GDP is worth about half the entire south just by itself, we're the leading manufacturing state by far, and we have the most jobs by far. Sure, our state is tied more to international trade (and so the economy is more dependent on how the economy is doing in other states and countries) plus the realestate bubble was larger here then else where but it's still the best place to live hands down in this country. People have voted with their feet too as we have the largest population of any state by far. The next closest states (Texas, New York, and Florida) don't even come close.

That example I have no problem with. What I do have a serious problem with is government not providing essential basic public safety services like fire services. It's so obviously a public safety issue so I'm astounded, or rather wish I was astounded because I've come to expect this stupidity, that the people of some states don't demand the government provide basic public safety services (like police and fire). A much better analogy would be to say it's ok for someone's wife to be raped because the guy didn't pay his $75 yearly police insurance bill. That would be the same level of retardation as we're seeing in Tennessee because police and fire are essential government services which need to be there for everyone.

How are those IOUs working out for you?

Oerdin, while waiting for you to reply, I've got a couple links for you in response to this:

I present:

3 Billion Dollars in Taxes Federal Employees Didn't Pay

Homes in foreclosure because the owners refused to pay

And in your neck of the woods, The city of L.A. fails to collect a half billion dollars in back taxes.

Ah well, I'm sure they all just forgot. Right?

Loads, and I mean loads, of places have volunteer or on call fire services in rural areas with budgets smaller then $8000 per year per fire house. The initial start up costs would be higher due to the need to purchase equipment but financed over 30 years it is very doable. Heck, if right now they're farming out all of the fire services coverage then they could continue to do that but the only difference would be everyone would have coverage and the per person cost would be substantially lower since having all 40,000 people in the insurance pool would mean the per unit costs would be lower. Don't even try to claim $25-$50 per house per year would break the bank.

But $75 does, right?

So let's see... You have some Federal employees who didn't correctly calculate their taxes, a bank which screwed up it's paper work, and a city of 15 million people (metro area) contains some people who cheat on their taxes. How exactly any of that supposed to pertain to the topic again? Right now it just looks like random drivel to avoid admitting you lost.

When you start saying "avoid admitting you lost", I know you've got nothing. Anyone who has debated with me on any level knows that I admit when I'm wrong or have made a mistake. You, on the other hand, have spent all this time making up shit and declaring it factually correct. I provided links to counter your assertions, and you made a simplistic statement rejecting them out of hand, and declared that I'm the one who is trying to avoid admitting I lost. Are you SpatialDude from TBBS? You sound like him.

From the fire chief's statement:

Based on this, I see the potential for some very undesirable things to arise in the near future.

With the amount of attention this case is getting, everyone in the area is probably now aware that, whether you're on the list or not, the fire department will respond if they have a report of someone being inside the building. Common sense also dictates that if someone tells firefighters there's a person trapped inside, they are not going to waste time interrogating that person to figure out if he or she is lying.

If it were just a matter of more false reports, that would be one thing. There are probably punitive measures that can be taken after the fact. But more false reports of people inside burning buildings equals more likelihood of firefighters' lives being in danger.

I know a lot of firefighters. These guys are well trained, they're sensible, and they know how to look out for themselves so they don't get hurt. But if they believe someone is trapped in a building, they will put their own lives at risk in order to find and rescue that person.

Please cite one example, oh speaking out of his ass one.

You are seriously dense.

Or do you mean another example where you're talking out of your ass?

You would end up paying less, as everyone in the county would pay in, on a per unit basis and you wouldn't have the problem of some people trying to game the system as it would be included in property taxes as all local basic services should be. What exactly are you whining about again? I, on the other hand, have described a system which would avoid tragedies like the one in the OP as well as improve public safety.

I'm not whining about anything. What the hell does whining have to do with anything? What kind of response is that? What a terrible rejoinder. I'd expect it from an utterly clueless idiot who doesn't grasp the basic concepts of dialogue, but you seem to act like you know so much, so it can't be you, right?

Like I said, you linked some random junk completely unrelated to the discussion and you think that proves a significant number of people wouldn't pay their property taxes? You think this proves your idiotic claim that I "made stuff up"? Are you seriously that stupid? You honestly can't tell that this is making you look like a fool instead of proving your point?

This is a very simple case of if someone doesn't pay their property taxes then they lose their property. It's the same every where so even if someone tries not to pay the county will eventually get paid when the property is sold at auction. Of course, virtually everyone will pay their property taxes because there is a direct link between keeping your home or losing it so pointing out some bank screwed up paper work in Florida or that some people owe back taxes (and the government is no doubt going through the proper legal channels to recoupe that money) just doesn't back up your claim.

This is so damn easy it's like playing punch the retarded three year old. Come on, Johnny, try harder and actually come up with a germane point.

Of course it's easy, you're playing by your own rules. You make your own statements and consider them factual without providing a shred of evidence to support them. I present counter-points directly related to your statements, you disregard them. I give you links to back up my statements, you disregard them. Then you state that I'm trying to avoid admitting I'm losing whatever game you're playing, and then you say that it's too easy. Of course it's easy, you've made yourself the banker in a game of monopoly only you are playing!

He could have used this money to pay:

http://farm.ewg.org/persondetail.php?custnumber=007236505

Doing a search on his address, there seems to be two buidings on his property...one a mobile home and the other a house...no one has mentioned this guy also has a house here.

In 2004 he sold an acre of his land to his son who also has a doublewide trailer on it. I wonder if he was the one who called the FD and had actually paid?

http://www.assessment.state.tn.us/SelectCounty.asp

county: Obion Name: Cranick

He's a democrat:

http://www.voterfactory.com/SouthFulton_TN_Tim-Connell_Kenneth-Crews_2862.html

I had some sympathy for him when I believed he had forgotten....but I don't believe that now because he said this to a local news guy:

I have zero sympathy for that mindset.

Oh as an aside...just how and why would someone get a $19 tobacco subsidy??

I'm still waiting for a single example of something I said which was unsupported. Come on, give me one. So far all you did is post one post with three completely unrelated links which have zero to do with this thread. If that's the best you can do then you're pathetic.

Here's a germane point....a fee needs to be paid no matter what, whether it's via taxes or subscription. In this case it's a...let's face it...measley $75. Anyone who owns property at all should be able to scrape up $75 a Year.

Since he knew it wasn't covered in taxes, and he allegedly paid it before with no problem...why the sudden problem now? And why is it okay with you that these men should risk life and limb for someone who couldn't be bothered to even pitch in $75 to make sure they were equipped?

He didn't care about his property enough to protect it...why should anyone else?

I kind of feel sorry for the firefighters in this situation. They're trained to put out fires; it's what they do. And in my experience, most firefighters do it because they're passionate about it. It has to be hard to watch something burn down and know that you could do something about it but you're not allowed to.

So the three links that directly respond to the assertion that people will pay liens on their house are unrelated? The three links that talk about home owners who decide to simply not pay their mortgage because it's easier and cheaper to get out of a foreclosure? Or the city of L.A. which can't even properly collect half a billion dollars in taxes because people simply won't pay? Or the federal employees, who are, what's that? Oh wait, Federal Employees, owe some $3 billion in back taxes that they haven't paid? Oh, wait, you rejected those out of hand. That's right. You see, you're not looking for facts or reasoning, you're looking to be right at all costs, and if that means acting like you've got the upper hand in lieu of supporting your own statements, then so be it.

You see, you made the claims, I countered them and supported them with linked articles. You, in the meantime, have done nothing to support your conclusions, and yet you're mocking me. You're a noob, and you've got a lot to learn about debate and discussion. Acting like an ass only works sometimes. The rest of the time, you have to know what you're talking about, and you're empty handed in that department. I pity you there, because you seem to think you've got it all rolled up when you're just playing in your own shit and laughing at everyone else because you've got it all to yourself.

I look at it like this. I work for a municipal Police Department. Our "jurisdiction" extends well outside of our city limits. That irks me more than a little because those people outside of the city limits pay exactly zero dollars and they receive full police coverage.

However, if you live even one foot outside of our PJ and you call 911, Central will NOT let us know. They will notify the Sheriff's Department. The closest municipal police unit may be only five minutes down the road (doubtful) and the closest Deputy may be an hour away. But, point being, the line has to be drawn some where. I can't provide police service for the entire state or nation. So, the line has to be drawn somewhere and some people are going to find themselves on the other or "wrong" side of that line.

I'm sorry. Move or petition to have your property annexed into the city. Take either of those two choices or you take your chances with the Sheriff's Department/Volunteer Fire Department/Private Ambulance Service/whatever.

You can, and you must.

For you work...the ALWAYS shift.