Warren Buffett is a Hypocrite

I think it's great he gives a lot of money to charity.

It does not alter the fact that his views, speeches and actions regarding taxes are full of hypocrisy. That is just a fact.

Don't play dumbass...the reason he wants the Foundation to fit the legal criteria of a charity is to avoid taxation. Period.

-He's called for the government to require him to pay more taxes.
-He hasn't called for anyone to pay more taxes than they're required to.
-You're calling him a hypocrite because he hasn't paid more taxes than he's required to.

You're not this stupid.

Did he tell you this personally?

That's right, hang your head in shame for pretending to know peoples secret motivations.

You are though apparently. Warren doesn't need to wait to be taxes higher. He is free to send in more money voluntarily if he wants. Since he hasn't and isn't he is full of shit.

It's both. The population will not respond well to the massive cuts that are necessary (nor will the politicians be able to bring about any substantive cuts), so why not mitigate the problem by increasing revenue? Again, polls have showed that the majority of people are in favor of both raising taxes and cutting spending, and not just one or the other.

He's full of shit because he hasn't done something that he hasn't asked anyone else to do either?


Yeah, that makes sense.

Ignore for a second that you think he is a hypocrite and focus on the merit of his argument (if it has any or not), and then continue the discussion from there.

Neither Congress or the President know what true budget cuts are.

His argument has no real merit because his pants are on fire.

I just finished beating this one to death with the defender the other day, and he pretended not to get it too.

When Buffet claims his tax rate is 17% and his secretary pays over 30%, he relies on pretzel logic to support his claim. E.g. if his salary is $1 million and his capital gains is $100 million, the tax is 15% on the latter and whatever his marginal rate (probably as Paladin pointed out the AMT makes his tax rate on next dollar of income over 30%). If you blend them (i.e. weight them according to the actual amounts), you'd likely arrive at his purported 17% "tax rate."

How is that pretzel logic? Is it unusual for the extremely wealthy to make a significant percentage of their income through capital gains?

I'm saying ignore that if that's what you think. It's intellectually lazy to dismiss an argument out of hand because you think he's a hypocrite.

How exactly is that pretzel logic? He's calling for an increase to that 17% "tax rate" whether it be an increase on his income tax or capital gains tax (but most likely an increase to the capital gains tax).

...

The requirement he insists on:

The foundation must continue to satisfy the legal requirements qualifying Warren’s gift as charitable...

The reason why is right there at the end of the sentence....

....exempt from gift or other taxes.

Secret motivations? It isn't secret....it's right there!

The reason is obvious...he wants more of his money to end up in charities helping people than in the hands of Government. It's logical and sane....but since he spends so much time insisting the wealthy don't pay enough taxes, it makes him look bad to avoid taxes anywhere.

How can you not get this?

Everywhere we look the Tea Partiers are yapping about how we MUST CUT THE DEFICIT NOW. So along comes Warren Buffett with a good starting point, raising taxes on the mega-rich. But somehow he's a hypocrite on this issue because he hasn't voluntarily paid more than he owes? By that same logic every Tea Partier who has complained about the deficit in the last few years is a hypocrite because they didn't voluntarily give up their Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, welfare, veterans benefits, food stamps, energy assistance, etc, etc.

Buffet claimed the super-rich were upset so many of their fellow Americans were suffering....if that really was true, they could voluntarily give more money to help.

The fact that they don't and are waiting to be forced to hand it over via legislation makes their claim look like bullshit.

You may have missed my earlier post.

By "fact," do you mean "assumption you made without checking first?"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/08/04/us-wealth-philanthropy-billionaires-idUSTRE6733F520100804

Updated list: http://givingpledge.org/#enter

Giving their fortunes to charity is not giving them to the Government to use like taxes.

It doesn't compare.

Surely you understand there is a difference between when Buffet is lying and when he's being a hypocrite, and the importantance of that distinction in this context?



Oh, and on July 7, Warren Buffett told Bloomberg: "I think the rich have a responsibility to pay higher tax rates." Then he groused that his wealthy friends are "paying lower tax rates than the people who are serving us the food." Mr. Buffett has been voicing this complaint for years, once observing that his personal tax rate of 17.7% is lower than that of his receptionist (30%).

Then, on a Monday night national address, President Obama recited the Buffet line that millionaires and billionaires pay lower tax rates than their secretaries. Democrats in Congress routinely cite Mr. Buffett's tax confessions as irrefutable evidence that tax rates on the very rich are too low and the system is unfair. And the system would be unfair, if Mr. Buffett's tax facts were the whole truth. But they aren't.

I don't know the details of Warren Buffet's personal taxes, and he hasn't made them public. But the IRS does provide reliable data on effective tax rates—the overall share of their income that various groups pay in federal income taxes (not including state or local taxes) after accounting for all deductions and exemptions. These are different than marginal tax rates, which are paid on the next dollar of income and now peak at 35% for individuals.

IRS data for 2008, for example, show that households in the top 10% of earners (above about $114,000) paid 19% of their income to the feds. Those in the top 1% (above $380,000) paid 23.3%. The top 0.1% of earners, with incomes of $2 million or more, end up paying a slightly lower tax of 22.7%, because they get more of their income from investments (more about this below).

So what about the rest of us? According to IRS data, a median-income household ($35,000) in 2008 paid about 4% of its income in federal income tax.

Mr. Buffett may have been referring to all federal taxes, not just income taxes, when he said the rich pay less than others. His secretary and most workers in America do pay a lot in Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes, but even accounting for them the federal system is highly progressive.

According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), middle-class families in 2007 (earning between $34,000 and $50,000) paid an effective 14.3% of their income in all federal taxes. The top 5% of income earners paid 27.9% and the top 1% paid 29.5%. And what about the highest earners? Americans with annual incomes above $2 million paid an average 32% of their income in federal taxes in 2005 (the most recent year for which data are available).

So how does Mr. Buffett arrive at such a low personal tax rate? He may have been referring to a 2010 IRS study of the 400 richest American taxpayers, a list he's probably on. It showed those people paid an effective federal income tax of 18.1% in 2008.

Yet that study crucially omits the corporate income tax, which is mostly borne by the owners of companies.

Mr. Buffett owns about one-quarter of his investment company Berkshire Hathaway, and his shares are worth about $38 billion. This wealth is mostly stored in what are technically called "unrealized capital gains." Eventually when those gains are converted into income, he will pay a capital gains tax. Even so, in 2008 Berkshire paid $3 billion in corporate taxes. And since Mr. Buffett is the principal owner, he shoulders a big share of that tax. [but Buffet just ignores that he pays this tax when he boasts about his low tax rate]

The reason for the light capital gains and dividend tax is that corporations pay up to a 35% tax on their profits before a dime of it is passed on to shareholders. The real tax rate on corporate income paid to individuals through capital gains and dividends is not 15%. It is closer to 45% once you count the tax on corporate profits. If the dividend tax rises to 20% next year from 15% today, then the total tax on dividends paid to shareholders would be closer to 50%, and that doesn't include state and local taxes.

To his credit, Mr. Buffett has criticized President Obama's near-obsessive calls for higher taxes on corporate jets. As Mr. Buffet correctly noted, the writeoffs companies take for capital expenditures such as jets are legitimate business expenses.

Overall, though, Warren Buffett is wrong on taxes. The tax system is already far too reliant on the wealthy to pay the government's bills. Taxes on millionaires and billionaires are already near a record high in terms of the share of all income taxes paid. And the effective tax rate on this group is much higher, not lower, than any other income category. The best way to balance the budget is for the economy to produce a lot more American success stories like Warren Buffett. [but that doesn't mean we should listen to the Buffets, except maybe regarding their particular industry]
~end excerpt~

DP

Because the government sends the money back when they realize you've overpaid?

So basically, if you call for an equitable tax system, you have to pay an unequitable share compared to other people of the same income level, or get branded a hypocrite.

Got it.

^"Equitable" is such a subjective word that you're obviously just full of bullshit up there.

Ever think of a career in politics? [I'd say you could be Buffet, but you'd have to be a billionaire and a better liar so that one won't work.]

hi all...

Tuttle, the Wall Street Journal op-ed you pulled that excerpt from was published prior to Buffett disclosing his tax details in his op-ed. It's up to you whether or not you decide to believe he is telling the truth about what he pays in taxes. He has nothing to gain from lying about paying less taxes than he does. All that article is is speculation based on averages.

As for taxes on the rich being at an all time high "in terms of the share of all income taxes paid" could that perhaps be because of the widening gap between the rich and poor? That doesn't convince me that the rich are already paying enough taxes, especially when their effective tax rates are at some of the lowest levels they've ever been.

There is no justifiable reason for one group of people to pay a higher percentage of their income than others.

Of course Buffet pays less income taxes than many others. He does not have a traditional income or paycheck to have taxes withheld.

So why the class envy Chad?

Relax! He's not donating any money to NAMBLA.

Out of curiosity, what right does Buffet have to volunteer other people's money for the gov't? Let him pay 50% of his value to the gov't if he wants. He can just STFU about other people's money.