We need a discussion about trolling

So the original Star Trek Into Darkness thread gets moved into the Red Room for allegedly flaming Dayton. Lanzman says that Dayton and Captain X are not trolling despite their constant campaigns in every threat remotely connected to the JJverse.

Faceman, the biggest troll of the board, shares his sage advice and says that trolling must be intentional and you must know you are trolling.

The original Into Darkness thread then had a long discussion about trolling, in which Dayton knew that people are tired of his and Captain X's trolling (such as accusations of people being fanboys, et al (sorry Laz, but that's out and out trolling).

Anyhow, a new thread is set up in Media Central. Not content with the original thread now being in the Red Room, Dayton immediately goes into the new thread and starts posting his usual complaints about JJTrek.

Now, I'm sorry, but even if you don't consider there to be trolling in the original thread, surely Dayton going into the new discussion thread in Media Central, set up by people who are the very same ones who have just told him they feel trolled, after a detailed discussion about trolling, must surely be a troll in of itself?

Surely anyone who is being told they are trolling would keep themselves in the Red Room just in case. But no, Dayton, a man who admits he likes to have people fall foul of the rules, deliberately goes into the new Media Central thread. If that is not trolling what the hell is?

If the powers that be are going to ignore such obvious trolling then new guidance needs to be given to the board members about exactly what is and is not trolling.

How is complaining about Star Trek trolling?

I'm certain Dayton posts his opinions intentionally. It's even possible he realizes that some people will disagree with him. And those people will have thin skins and start whining about it. See, for example, this post:

http://www.wordforge.net/showpost.php?p=2409832&postcount=1

Just because some people are super sensitive to criticism of Star Trek does not make the one criticizing Star Trek a troll. Wrap your mind around that. It does say a lot about you, though, El Chup. Apparently all one needs to get under your skin is say that Abrams Trek isn't a great movie enough times.

Are you sure you're not just looking for a nanny-board to protect you from what appear to be serious personal issues?

The trolling nature of Dayton's post in these threads isn't that he is causing people to feel bad. It's that he's derailing the thread. Personally, I favor less moderation, and think trolling and flaming should be allowed everywhere but the Blue Room and possibly Helpdesk. But since we do have rules, they should be enforced. Consistent thread derailing is a form of trolling, and I think most here would agree regardless of Faceman's protestations.

We should ban discussion about JJTrek in Media Central for say... 6 months, and see how it goes.

There were 34 posts between Dayton's first "derailing" post and when Lanz moved it to the Red Room. Only four of those 34 post were by Dayton.

Who derailed the thread, again?

So let me get this straight. Calling skinofevil: John Castle, I am Legion, The Question, The Saint, Visionrazor, Raoul Duke Jr, or one of the half dozen other names he has slithered in here under = trolling.

Dayton intentionally derailing threads on subjects he doesn't like WHICH HE HAS ADMITTED HE DOES ON PURPOSE in order to shut down people and discussions he disagrees with = not trolling.

Anyone want to try and explain how THAT works?

Let me spell it out for you, Lanzman just doesn't see it as trolling.

Exactly why we need clarification. All I'm seeing is bullet dodging and double standards.

I'd do it, but it would require a series of contortions and death defying leaps of logic illegal in most states. Yeah, there's no reasonable explanation that doesn't resemble "because fuck you (TM visionrazer)."

Yes, but even if you don't class the original derailment as trolling, there was then a big discussion about it and the thread moved to the Red Room. Dayton knew full well that there was tension and then goes stright back into the new Media Central thread again to start doing the same thing all over again, while knowing things are tense. He himself knows it will causes tension, ergo it is clear trolling. What's worse is he is doing it thinking he has the blessing of Lanzman....because, as he has confirmed many times, he likes to manipulate people into falling on their swords by way of the rules.

Well, if that's not fucking obvious trolling then what the hell is?

But don't worry, next time John Castle, I am Legion, The Question, The Saint, Visionrazor, or Raoul Duke Jr take offence to it, you can just get the thread tossed into the Red Room.

Jesus Christ.

Life is too short to worry about the definition of trolling.

Trolling is meant to get a reaction, so by that standard, it has worked. But why does anyone care?

Don't take my post as saying I agree...

I didn't

It's not about trolling per se, it's about inconsistent application of the rules.

Not interested? Bugger off back to the Red Room then.

I agree there's a large amount of inconsistency in what Lanz labels trolling.

I see a trend toward warning people for subjective trolling - that is, inoccuous comments that any rational person wouldn't consider trolling but is in fact trolling solely because someone complains that they don't like the comment.

Take for instance Visionrazor. Calling Skinofevil Visionrazor isn't actually trolling on any rational level. It's just one of a dozen usernames that he has used over the years. There's no rule against that and there's no reasonable justification for considering that trolling. It'd be like warning someone for calling me "Face." It's not going to happen.

But what did happen is that Visionrazor complained to Lanzman that hedoesn't like it and wants it to stop and that he considers it trolling. In other words, what one person considers trolling is now trolling regardless of what reasonably sensible people think. So now Lanzman warns people for subjective trolling. If the "target" considers himself trolled, well, for Lanz, that's good enough now.

But here's the problem with this Dayton "incident." We have a dozen Star Trek nerds bent out of shape that Dayton doesn't like Abrams Trek and he won't shut up about it. They feel personally trolled by Dayton's dislike for Abrams Trek and would like someone to warn him for hurting their feelings. In otherwords, it's just like what Visionrazor does.

I agree that there needs to be some consistency, but I disagree with the direction that El Chup et al want it to be applied.

Let's see:

You guys calling someone a name you know bothers them = trolling

Sharing an opinion you don't agree with about a movie =/= trolling

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

You've got it wrong Face. I want the freedom to troll in Media Central. I like calling SkinofCastleDuke Visionrazer, rather than being limited to IamSaintofEvil. But Lanz says no, it gives poor LegionQueston the butt hurt, have a warning. Okay, if that's the way he wants to play it, fine. But then Dayton needs a warning for trolling, too. By far, the very worst choice, if we have troll free rooms is to simply move a thread, once trolled, to the Red Room. It's a tacit approval of trolling, and gives a tremendous gift to anybody who wants to troll in Media Central.

He could have just locked it, but instead he moved it to where trolling was allowed so everyone could get it out of their system. This is bad how?

If the theory behind troll and flame free rooms is that people sometimes want a discussion without such distractions, then moving any thread that devolves to the Red Room makes all MC threads open season for troll and flame fests. He should hand out warnings and then see whether the thread settles.

Nothing wrong with moving it, but the trolling from Dayton, and you Mr. Innocent (wth your fanboy insults that you admit making), was going on before the thread was moved. Ergo the rule breaking occured in Media Central.

Basically what you're saying that if I fancied a troll in the Green Room all I'd have to do is troll the fuck out of a thread and then say "hell, Lanz just move it to the Red Room so I can avoid a warning". But we all know that not only would it not happen, but it'd be bullshit.

Oh for fucks sake.

Probably because my fanboy comment was an accurate description of what was going on instead of a troll. Of course, it might have helped had you all knocked it off when Lanz warned you to, or even just taken the out I offered everyone by pointing out that it was just a movie.

By yourself, probably not going to happen. But to be frank, it's Lanz's board, so he can run it the way he feels like as far as I'm concerned.

And 'childish fucko who is so wrapped up in a SciFi franchise that he can't grasp how anyone else can enjoy it b/c it isn't exactly like he envisions it in his wet dreams in his parents basement' is an accurate description of you but I bet I can't go around pointing that fact out in Media Central.



Or maybe I can now under the new Lanz rule. I'm sure it will just be moved to the Red Room.

Here's an idea- if you don't like what Dayton (or anyone else) is posting in a particular thread, either ignore it, gloss over it, or don't respond to it, etc. We even have this cool function called 'ignore' that I usually have no less than three or four people on. It makes sifting the chaff a lot quicker and easier.

I don't use ignore however I do scroll right past his crap.

So easy.... gotta wonder why so many on this board can't do the same.....

So can I get upset about people calling me by previous usernames, even if they are my real name?

No Nick. Only visionrazor can get away with that.

It's funny when the other nerds try to make fun of me for being a nerd.

Nerd.