If 9/11 was an inside job.

Dinner's 9/11 thread got me thinking. We're coming up on the fifteenth anniversary this September and in many ways the world feels less safe. Two wars have been waged and several major attacks have happened since. I want to ask a hypothetical question, what if we found out that 9/11 was an inside job? I imagine Bush and Cheney would face criminal charges, but even worse, it would probably tear this country apart and possibly result in civil war. What do you think would happen?

It wasn't. So it's not even worth arguing over.

Which why it's a hypothetical question. Personally I enjoy discussing hypotheticals.

But this is a hypothetical that is off the scale on incredulous. I hate to drive Penelope Cruz into the ground here (maybe the headboard) but one hypothetical would be that of her next baby being mine. Is that even worthy of an argument?

Oh well, it was just a thought.

I don't think it was an inside job. It's certainly true, however, that governments and intelligence agencies - which really had precious little to do following the end of the cold war - made the most of it to impose restrictions on certain freedoms and to justify mass surveillance.

It's also been a very useful for those who wish to stoke up fears about inconsequential matters like terrorism to distract attention from real issues and to keep people afraid and compliant.

Fortunately we're letting Muslims develop atomic weapons so we won't have to sit and watch people jumping from buildings. TV coverage will necessarily be long-range stand-off shots of a big fireball and mushroom cloud, accompanied by the usual dialog about how we shouldn't blame Islam.

Muslims already have nuclear weapons. I take it you've heard of Pakistan?

All their nuclear weapons are aimed at India. Now we're letting Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other wildly jihadist countries have them.

Why would it tear this country apart? Much less result in a civil war? If there was proof that Bush and/or Cheney were behind it I would imagine there would be a very broad public and political consensus to punish them though given their ages the likelihood of anything beyond imprisonment would be very unlikely.

Because it would result in massive mistrust in government and people would conclude that everything we've done since 9/11 was invalidated. Also the rest of the world would see us as fucked up. I'd imagine some people would still take the government's position which would cause a great division in the country not seen since 1860.

Half the people in this country already conclude that everything done since 9/11 in invalid probably.

And why is what the rest of the world thinks relevant? The United States is too large and powerful for the rest of the world to deal with much differently than it already does.

What if Pearl Harbor was actually carried out by the British?

How does the world feel less safe to you? Aren't you unemployed living in Virginia and have never been outside America?

Yes to the first two, no to the last.

So how does the world seem less safe to you? Sure the Middle East is a shithole but let's be honest, it always has been. Terrorist attacks on civilians have always been a thing.

I travel all over the planet and feel safe when I do it.

As a Shia majority country Iran isn't "wildly Jihadist" by any means, and as for Saudi, well your guys have been arming them for decades, so you can't wear your partisan hat for that one.

Sorry Dayton, you Americans enjoy a good riot.

Theres riots when a black kid gets shot by the police in Missouri. National hysteria when a black kid gets shot (for getting skittles. ) and yet you think a revelation that the government orchestrated the worst terror attack on American soil would just pass over with nothing but a prison term?

No racial component to that revelation. It would generally be seen as a crime against all Americans.

Yeah, this. Travel is more annoying than it once was, but once you arrive at your destination, everything is about the same. I would guess that one unfortunate impact of 9/11 is less travel by xenophobic types and the easily frightened. If they weren't voters, I'd be fine with that.

Maybe someone who was alive in the seventies can confirm this, but the country was definitely at odds with Gerald Ford choosing to pardon Nixon after Watergate. It likely cost him the bid for re-election.

I can only imagine what would happen if it came out that 9/11 was done by the government....all the men and women killed in battle, to say nothing about how every other aspect of life has changed here.

That was sort of my point. Dayton wants to war with the world, but we shouldn't rush to war. Look at Iraq, Vietnam, these things should be deliberated in Congress and the War Powers Act should be eliminated. Even with 9/11 being caused by jihadists, has what we've done since really made a difference? Look at the Patriot Act and drone strikes. This is what I mean as far the world being safer. Maybe that's what I should have led with, but it was just a thought that crossed my mind.

The powerful all protect each other, getting the fuckers prosecuted would be damned near impossible.
Executed for treason? Forget about it.
Maybe in the Founding Fathers days you could have made that happen, but making a politician eat lead in an official capacity, don't even dream it.
For sure, someone would try to assassinate them.
Jared Lee Loughner and Omar Gonzalez showed in spite of secret service, you can get that shit done.
But would they?
I already thought Bush & Cheny stacked up enough crimes for a loon somewhere to snap.
Shit, I was always surprised no one killed fucking OJ.
He didn't even need bodyguards.
WTF, America?
What kind of soft country is this?

No I don't. I just think there are a handful of regimes that should be eliminated.

There were two or three serious assassinations attempts on President Bush.

Most likely they'd find a way to say they knew nothing about it and would find a scape goat, maybe Scotter Libby?

They just happen to be huge, and would destabilize the planet.

No one was shot for getting skittles.

Which would result in WW3 and possibly nuclear war.

Oh yeah because they are such major forces for "stability" already..........