Star Trek Discovery. [SPOILERS WITHIN]

But will there be tits?

Oh, man, I so wanna see a Deltan orgy.

What's so great about that?

STINO.

It's not VanillaTrek that we got through most of the 1990's and early 2000's.

Dorner needs to play a orion save girl.

I didn't say it had to be or should be.

But making a show better doesn't necessarily mean more tits, violence, and vulgarity.

I have yet to see a show which those things haven't improved it.

It doesn't fit Star Trek.

Fun fact: Harlan Ellison had to fight the network censors over Kirk's line in that scene.

What I mean is it's supposed to be an optimistic show, yes there's conflict, I don't want to see The Dark Knight gritty version of Trek.

Batman: Adheres to the moral code of not killing someone, even though he knows that it is inevitable they'll break out of prison and start slaughtering people for the simple reason that they can.

Kirk, Picard, Cisco, Janeway, and Archer: Supposed to follow a moral code which says that they can't interfere in "local politics," yet, they all routinely violate that code when they feel it is appropriate.

I'm not seeing the problem here. Granted, that doesn't mean the show will be any good, but I've yet to see a legit reason why what we've heard about it won't count as Trek, unless you're going with the "wrong forehead" argument.

I just hope that the writers don't think going dark, adding more violence and sex is what Trekneeds or will make this show great.one of my favorite TNG episodes is "Measure of a Man" which involved no space exploration, no space battles, no sex, just an intellectual discussion over whether Data was alive and deserved to be treated as a sentient being or not.

Bryan Singer wrote the pilot, and had his hand in the script-writing phase of the series, so I'm willing to give it a chance. Not everything he's done has been great, but it has all been good enough that I've found it enjoyable. I can't say that about JJ Abrams.

Bryan Singer wrote the pilot for Discovery?

Ayup. At least according to the news stories we've had in this thread.

Wasn't he on Enterprise once?

Dunno. Only saw one ep of Enterpoop and that didn't inspire me to watch any more.

I'm pretty sure he did. Anyway, Singer knows Trek, so that's good to hear.

started off on ds9

No. One of his very early jobs was on Voyager but his work since has more than made up for that.

Seseme Street.












.....yeah, I'll see my way out now

As for the gritty feel, I'd far rather DSC go full on grit than the half assed shit they've been doing for sex appeal.

Is anyone here gonna argue that full on sex would've been any worse for Enterprise than the decon chamber titillation they broke outon the very first episode?

DS9 was the least blatant on fanservice-y shit, but Kira's catsuit served no purpose either.

Jellico was right to put Troi in a proper uniform.

Then there was the extreme luckiness in that Voyager lost maybe one or two crewmembers a season. They had a crew compliment of around 150 in season one and by the time they're picking straws to call Earth in a later season, they've got 146 (which includes the six Equinox survivors). Ship still looks as shiny as she did leaving spacedock.

Enterprise to their credit gutted a fourth of their crew towards the end of season three, but again, it takes till nearly the end of season three before anyone bites it.

Bring on the blood and guts.

TOS hinted at and described horrific things happening.

The crew of the Exeter from "The Omega Glory", disintegrating into a pile of crystals must have been rather unpleasant to witness.

And there was clearly some gang-rapey shit going on in "Return Of The Archons".
BTW, having to tapdance around the rape stuff for 60's TV just made it more confusing.
What was that even about?
You didn't see the Borg collective going "going to shut down cybernetics for an hour, time for rape!! ".
I 'unno.

Elmo disagrees!

On a serious note, I listened to this interview with George Takei today, which I think was recorded some time last year, and "grittier" certainly could be inline with what Gene wanted, if it's done right. Take the episode, "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield." It's a discourse on race relations in the US, but it's not terribly sophisticated. You get Frank Gorshin and the other guy in Harlequin makeup, along with a bunch of hammy acting. It makes a point, but one which bludgeons you over the head almost to the point of absurdity. Compare that to the episode of Black Mirror, "Men Against Fire." Somewhat similar themes (ie demonization of those who aren't like you at all), but presented in a manner (even excluding the Orwellian ending) that '60s-era, or any other version of, Trek couldn't hope to do.

What's the DS9 episode where Kira thinks that she's found a Cardassian who's committed war crimes, and he turns out to be a hapless accountant who had plastic surgery to make him look like a Cardassian war criminal? That was a damned good episode, and had they not been bound by the limitations of '90s TV, could have been even more horrific in its details of what the Cardies did to the Bajorans. How would people feel about such events presented in the style of Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, or The Shield? I don't know, but it'd be interesting to find out.

Duet.

But the problems with presenting "more horrific in its details of what the Cardies did to the Bajorans" are...........based on the details mentioned in Deep Space Nine, the Cardassians were not as remotely as bad as people claimed.

More like Pinochet's Chile in the 1980s than Hitler's Germany in the 1940s.

And thus opens the doors for conflict (and a damned good story). Party A claims that Party B were genocidal maniacs, while Party B admits that the previous leaders did do some awful things, though nowhere near as bad as Party A is claiming. Both sides present evidence to support their claims, yet with the level of technology available to the two parties, it's very easy to fabricate such evidence. Who do you believe? Why do you believe them? What happens after the verdict if you find out you were utterly wrong?

What Tuckerfan said.

I thought DS9 did a great job of working around the limitations set upon the franchise to depict both Bajorans and Cardassians with a wide berth of heroes and villains alike, and letting the Federation characters confront sticky situations moreso than any of their TNG or Voyager counterparts ever got to face.

With the writing on TV today, such themes can be explored much further.

Michael Dorn reportedly turned down a role on the series because they weren't going to throw enough money at him.