The U.S. Health Care Catch-All Thread

The Republicans really have become the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight.

I don't think it needs to be clarified that I'm no fan of government mandated single-payer. However, this is going to turn into a generational nightmare if Congress keeps jerking it around. Just go ahead and offer Medicare to everyone and be done with it. Then the failures will be because of incompetence and not out-right maliciousness.

http://www.newser.com/story/245859/inside-the-gop-health-care-collapse.html

Repeal only won't work as even Republican law makers know the ACA is a good thing and is almost exactly what a conservative approach to health care would be. Yes, their propaganda lied and said it was horrible and the ignoramuses bought that lie but by every measurable way it is better than what we had before. No way they will just repeal because then you are looking at 50 million losing health insurance.

Shit, the latest senate proposal had made the house bill worse so that 32 million would have lost coverage and the majoroty of the caucus was against it even though they were afraid to say so publicly out of fear of the ignorant Trumpanzees.

A sense of humor, or early onset of dementia?

Or are you really just that disconnected? Good luck paying for it without the country becoming even poorer still.

Living in the reality based world.

Almost perfect avatar. You should change it to orange, though.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/18/republican-obamacare-repeal-effort-240667

Aaaaaaannnddd... Repeal without a replacement is dead. It turns out those red state voters like their medicaid as well as the insurance regulatory improvements in the ACA and even Republican senators know it.

As long as it's an option and not mandatory, I'd be fine with that. I also want to be able to opt out of the current taxes I pay for Medicare.

Yeah, we know. You want all the benefits society brings you, but fuck if you should pay for 'em, right?

There should be no opting out of the taxes because you just know, with absolute certainty that the moment these guys get sick...

Besides the reason there even is Medicare is because the private insurance market wouldn't touch old people at a remotely reasonable price.

How am I benefiting from Medicare if I'm opting out of it?

It goes back to why insurance on everyone is cheaper overall than only insuring people who can afford it. People who get sick wait until they're near death before they go the Emergency Room, and then the resulting medical bills have to be eaten by the hospital (and the insurers, the taxpayers, and everyone else) because the poor person can't afford to pay for whatever the hell happened to them. Preventative care, covered by insurance, means fewer reasons to rush to the very expensive, very crowded Emergency Room. If 70 year old you has been opting out of Medicare since you were in your 20s or 30s, and then you get deathly ill, you're going to have to be treated via the Emergency Room. Taxpayers get to foot that bill, because 70 year old you likely isn't making the kind of cash needed to eat, pay rent, and pay for medications/healthcare, so you have to either go without and die, or buy medicine and eat dog food to compensate. We tried to put an end to that travesty more than 50 years ago. Why would we be stupid enough as to go back to it?

On that note, I will say that if "just die so you don't take taxpayer money" truly becomes an allowable, endorsed option in this country, then we truly deserve to collapse into ruin.

Dear Republican Party,

You are inept.

You won't get a better chance than there is right now. You have a President who will sign a repeal or a replacement. You are almost universally opposed to Obamacare (or at least claim to be).

If you can't get it done on this one not-very-popular entitlement that's already in a death spiral, you can't get it done and you deserve to go back to being a minority party.

And if you don't get it done, your smaller government credibility will be long, long gone.

Sincerely,

Paladin

@Coloratura , So, when it comes time to purchase insurance, why not have a fee for waiting until you're sick to get insurance? After all, you chose not to have it, shouldn't there be a consequence for making bad choices? We accept that in every other aspect of life, why is healthcare the exception?

Because healthcare means the difference between life and death. Keep in mind, too, that there are diseases that you don't know you have until they strike you down. So you could get into your upper 50s, and have a heart attack, with no prior signs. You could develop diabetes, you could have a stroke. If you are uninsured, you will still get care, because for now we're not barbarians who let people die in the streets. The thing is, if you're not buying insurance because you can't really afford it, a fee is only going to compound the problem. If you're not buying it because you think you don't need it, yeah that's shortsighted, but I didn't know that at 21 I would have high blood pressure, or at 28 diabetes. Insurance exists for that very reason.

True that. You'd think Medicare would be a great example of exactly why we *shouldn't* socialize insurance instead of trying to bring the actual cost of care down. A giant and growing fraction of the budget, heading for insolvency, and a convenient untouchable cover for not fixing any of the problems that made it necessary in the first place.

The ones in Congress were almost universally opposed to it to the extent (and only to the extent) that it made a great bludgeon vs Democrats and vs more moderate Republicans in the primaries.

Besides, what're you going to do, vote for the other guys?

Vote third party.

Okay create a public option that's means tested, but also allow for private insurance. Doesn't France has something like this?

Yup, Collins is already widely known to be a 'name only' republican.

And Capito and Murkowski will soon confirm that they're R I N O and liars, posturing with their hollow (meaningless) vote to repeal when Obama was certain to veto, but unwilling to actually walk the walk when the time comes, or at least we'll see when Mcconnel insists on the vote to repeal.

While there's plenty of overlap (venn diagramwise) between GOP that are social conservatives and those who purport to be fiscal conservatives, it's obviously a much more variegated bunch than Democrats. Based on WF as well as observed in leftstream media - liberals by and large sound interchangeable, generally fungible, while in contrast the right wing has a much more diversified field of opinions on values they embrace as conservatives. I think many on the right agree that over recent decades, very few have shown themselves to be *small* government GOP other than by their talk.

[And now, taking the virtual crack away from the Congress-hooked addicts will be near impossible - plus it's a "tax cut for the rich" since o-care was clever enough to include a new surtax on investments, not to mention the millions who will be butchered upon repeal according the senior Democrats in congress.]

That you might need to be on it at some point.

The best way to bring down per unit costs is to socialize it. Seriously that is why everyone else can offer same or better care for far less per person.

So in addition to being crazy, the Republicans are also a bunch of losers, unable to pass their own agenda with a majority.

I'd almost prefer that the bill did pass. People didn't vote in a GOP government because they actually agree with their policies; most of their voters are too stupid to understand them. All they voted for was "I hate immigrants" and "Fuck Obama, Clinton, and the Democrats." That is the full extent of their rationale and their policy consciousness.

So, if folks actually felt the effects of Republican healthcare policies, we'd see an electoral reversal in quick order. Then single payer, which has made its way far into the Overton window, becomes plausible.

Republican moderates know that. That's why they won't pass the bill.

As for Trump, he's expressed support for universal healthcare in the past. He may secretly look forward to working with the Democrats on making that a reality.

France has government mandated health insurance paid for by taxes that is administered by private companies using the same standards so health care providers and patients don't have to deal with a myriad of different forms and policies. This covers 80% of costs. There's no opt-out. The tax also funds sick pay and pensions.

The 20% balance may be covered by private insurance at the buyer's discretion.

The benefit to society is lower cost: illness is treated earlier for less, or prevented. Oh, and people have better, longer lives.

Not-very popular entitlement? Did you see the polling on the Republican replacement? It was at 20% compared to Obamacares 50% approval. More people approve of Obama care than Congress or Trump. But go ahead and repeal and kick millions of people off health insurance, many of them republican voters from poor red states who love the ACA but hate Obama care, and see how that works out for you.

Paladin's credibility is similarly questionable as he chose to live in CA. (if this is wrong or too personal please bitch-slap me).

Here's an op-ed by an economist on CA's push towards single-payer. I think the numbers would hold true for the rest of the country.

Single payer at the state level won't happen in this state due to cost. It was a positioning bill not meant to pass and the party leadership killed it when it looked like it really would pass. Especially since it was devoid of all cost saving measures so as to not offend any special interest lobbyists.

It is like how the Republicans in Congress voted 80 times to repeal the ACA when they knew it would not pass but now refuse to pass a single vote now that they know it would become law. They knew it was bad policy and don't really want to do it but also knew faking it would excite their base.

It is kabuki theater meant to be consumed by dullards and the dullards eat it up.