Trump bans Transgendered in military.

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/...tions-transgender-policy-shift-200649506.html

Sarah Huckabee Sanders rants and threatens to shut down press briefing if anyone dares ask her what Trump's big gay trans ban really means. As sad as it is pathetic.

Also, please note, Trump hasn't actually done anything (when does he ever?) and instead just tried to distract everyone from his criminal incompetence.

In fairness, this is not a rant:

It is a clear sign that the policy was practically unknown to her one day after Trump tweeted it, though. The next question might be whether it is known to Trump.

For all the mewling and howling about people's liberty, they sure have a problem wrapping their heads around the whole "consent", thing, don't they?

Whether it's gay adults consenting to have relations, or the secretary that doesn't want her pussy grabbed, they just can't seem to work out the math on that.

It certainly wasn't known to the Pentigon as their official spokesman today said none of them knew anything about this or were consulted on it at all. So much for Trump's claims that the generals wanted it.

I figure "Consultations with my generals" was code for "I talked to myself out loud, while I was on the shitter."

If you worry about consent you are taking away their rights to discriminate and grab pussy without permission.

A lot to respond to in this thread so I'm going to TRY to get a multi-quote post right.

First off, "transgenderED" is not grammatically correct. That would imply something happened to you rather than a stated of being. A straight person is straight, they have not been straighted, a black person is black, they are not a person who's been blacked.

Second, most of what I'm seeing says he can't do this by fiat, there's a process - but he can stop the process that Obama started by EO

Third, according to Politico this is a ham-fisted execution of a political trade-off. Social-Cons in the House, pissed that the Hartzler Amendment failed, apparently told Trump they would not support a defense bill that included funding for his Wall fetish unless he stopped armed services from funding trans medical treatment and he said "fuck it, I'ma just ban them all" because he's an idiot.

Furth, the Rand group that was hired to study the matter gave an estimated cost range which was a touch over $8 million on the high side. By contrast, the services spend $84 million a year on erectile dysfunction treatments and Trump has wasted over $20 million traveling to Mar-a-lago in just six months (not ALL his outings to enrich himself by visiting a Trump property - JUST Mar-a-lago). As far as anyone can tell, those like Hartzler who consider treatment a huge financial burden have no comment on these other expenses. In reality, of course, it's part of the ongoing payoffs made to CNP Dominionists in order to keep the herd of sheep loyal to Dear Leader.

At the risk of taking you seriously (I don't) "social engineering" is exactly the whine employed by those who didn't want an integrated military, women to serve, gays to serve, whatever. Reality is that nations around the world have already crossed these bridges and none of the predicted disaster arose - it's not an "experiment" when we already know what works.
Also, no new barracks necessary thanks.

No. That's what House SocialCons asked him to say - but he was too incompetent to get it right.

if you take what he said at actual face value, they would have to start expelling thousands of active duty members.

Kristen Beck says hi.

Laying aside all other quibbles with your comments - that's not what PUS said. He said, basically, "Everybody who's trans get the fuck out and don't come back."

The takeaway on this - if said women were spared from being on active duty attending to military duties for this procedure, and the after care, then there's no basis to argue that someone couldn't be spared for a like period for GRS. Which is considered by the entire medical establishment to be medically necessary care, not cosmetic.

Also true, but a secondary purpose.

***considers responding to the next helping of Flashy bullshit, decides not to waste valuable time on obviously trying-to-hard troll***

From what I understand the Pharisees and the White Pride crowd are trying to convince him to leave Sessions alone. He's carrying water for both agendas and probably getting more actual results than anyone else in the Trump Administration (sadly)

You might be surprised how many still-conservative trans women I had on my friend list a year ago who absolutely LOVE Trump and insisted he'd be a great great friend to LGBT people while Clinton couldn't be trusted to do anything on the subject.

But yeah, one is forced to question their mental capacity .

Walt Heyer?!!?


no wait...


Anyone who takes that twit seriously is desperate for any source that confirms their own bigotry.

For starters, ol' Walt specifically stated in his first (of several) books that he was never transsexual in the first place, but was later diagnosed with dissociative disorder and had manipulated the medical system (in the 70's!!) to get approval to have surgery; he later tried to paint over that buy going around saying "I used to be transsexual" after we rightly pointed out that someone who said of himself "I never was one" can't build his career upon saying "I used to be one"

The article is nothing but a stew of tired Pharisee talking points that misdirect, mislead or outright lie and have been debunked as often as he (literally thousands of times) and others have regurgitated them. It's highly likely the man has a database of cliched claims that he just copies and pastes before slightly altering the wording because his shtick doesn't change no matter the context.

Basically, Walt has built a career taking advantage of people who were (a) like him, mis-diagnosed; (b) indoctrinated into a religion that taught them to hate themselves and so the pretend to be "delivered by God" while miserable inside; or (c) were shamed into recanting by the sociological pressures brought to bare on those who transition (i.e. a spouse who leaves the, a career that's lost, no access to their children, etc)

He's a scumbag and you should go take a shower to wash off the stench of having inflicted him on anyone's eyeballs.

how much attention do you pay to what trans people are saying?

There is literally an annual Transgender Day of Remembrance in which we memorialize the 20 or more (known) trans people murdered for being trans every year in this country. One of the big issues we have beyond the death of our (almost always) sisters is that when one dies, the police VERY often misgenders her to the press, and unsupportive (and sometimes even professed-to-be supportive) friends and relatives contribute to the problem. When this happens it sometimes takes months to come to anyone's attention, if it ever does, that the victim was trans at all so the reported numbers are surely light.

(for example, poor black trans woman is killed but her ID still shows an M because she can't afford the requirements to change it....so cops report a male was killed, papers report a man "or sometimes cross-dressed men, or "man wearing women's clothes" or whatever - was killed. The trot down to the neighbor hood and talk to people who knew the victim and most of them say "oh he was a sweet boy" or "I don't know why anyone would want to hurt him" or whatever.

Blatantly disrespecting their friend even after their death.

So we stay after the papers HARD about properly gendering a trans victim and that situation has improved dramatically in the last couple of years (with the papers, less so with the cops - the friend and family thing is still a bitch though because you can't educate EVERY ignorant ass)

Also, while I will not make yet another failing attempt to educate your dumb-ass on the reality that such surgery is NOT elective of cosmetic (it literally saves lives) - the fact that people like you keep pushing the mythology that it is is a contributing factor to why people like Ms Whigam get killed. S while you are encouraging us to speak up and educate people, do know that the biggest roadblock to that is folks like yourself who refuse to be educated.

assuming that the distribution is consistent with the Gen-Pop, it's somewhere from 8-12k (depending on which estimation of incidence in the genpop that you believe ...and there are studies which suggest the incidence is somewhat higher in service because of the cultural pressure on MTF trans folks to "man up" and make the problem go away (what better way that athletics or the military) and, conversely, the opportunity for a FTM to "man up" and it not be considered a give-away that they're trans.

Likely any higher rate will normalize over time as the culture becomes more accepting.

See the one mentioned in this thread. It is true she did not - could not - transition while enlisted, but a transsexual person is trans from birth, whether or not anyone other than them knows about it yet.

read the politico article Matt Hunter linked

Trump can't even rape non-military trained women, that's why his has to have money to get anywhere, or (allegedly) turn to kids.

who are you again?

well I already responded to two trolls so....

Dee, as far as the evidence shows, did NOT misrepresent herself to this murderer. He know fully well who he was meeting.

But hey, feel free to trust and defend a killer if you want - I'm sure it's the Jesusy thing to do.

also, your math assumes all of them in one year, the reason the Rand estimate is so low is, partially, because there are not REMOTELY that many capable surgeons available to handle that volume of demand. Even in the private sector you can often wait for 2 years or more for your turn.

I do have to adjust your figures though. The average cost of MtF in the U.S. in the private sector is more like $18k than $13k - $15k is probably the low end and the high profile top-of-the-line docs go as high as $22k

For FTM it generally goes for twice that.

Moreover, GRS is not the only potential expense. There's BA and electrolysis for MTF, mastectomies and hysterectomize for FTM...plus secondary care involving HRT and the mental evaluation you need to get cleared for surgery.

It's probably fair to estimate around $40-50K (depending on which way you're traveling) per subject IF you were paying for the "full ride" (which is seldom going to be the case.

As Paladin noted, the regs call for 18 months consistent presentation in your gender before eligibility to enlist so many will already have gotten a good bit done; also, fewer than half of trans people ever get GRS but it's impossible to tell how often that's because of cost (as it is for me) but it's known that not every trans person is comfortable with the implications of such surgery (for example, a surgically created penis is often....unsatisfactory...and many FTM are holding out for something more functional and natural)

Point being, an estimate for "full ride" cost is seldom going to be what's actually spent on a given individual. Budget $50k apiece just for the sake of an estimate and $8 million gets you 160 subjects per year, or roughly 3 per week. Which, given the military currently doesn't have ANY in uniform docs doing GRS is probably optimistic if they are doing it in-house.

Rambling I guess but the point is, if there are 7k trans service members, or 15k,, or whatever - the overwhelming majority in any given year are just getting HRT for which the cost is minimal.
(also, by the way, you can do an orchdectomy on a MtF n the private sector for about $2500 and it's surely cheaper in the service. It's a simple out-patient thing that makes a HUGE difference for trans-women who're not yet ready or able to get GRS)

no one should be surprised by this. Thankfully there's a couple of decades of solid precedent that courts - for now - will follow rather than bow the knee to the Dominionists. After Trump and the GOP finish packing the courts with morons like John K Bush that might be a different story.

actually i this case it means Retired Gen. Jerry Boykin at FRC told me what to do.

Ugh. Dominionists.

Trey Crowder makes a GREAT point here...as he always does...after you get past him giving Trump even a little credit in the opening minute - particularly about calling bullshit on the spending angle

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/transgender-military-trump-cost/

Not sure where RAND is getting only 140 potential HRT recipients, it'll probably be far higher than that - but HRT is not remotely costly. It's a financial burden in the private sector because of all the stuff you have to go through to get it, which wouldn't apply here, but the actual meds are not horrible.

These people serve our country and risk their lives to protect it. What is wrong with helping them get to a place they are comfortable with their bodies, or as comfortable as possible? We have would now begrudge a service person spinning rims for their giant pickup, and this is so much more meaningful and important.

It is the same as when he fired Comey, tried to get other people to take the blame, and claimed the CIA was in chaos and that no one liked Comey when the exact opposite was the truth. Trump just makes up garbage and says what ever comes to mind without any reguard for the truth.

If that is true and you please explain why many teens go back and forth changing their minds before ultimately moving on to other things. I don't doubt some feel trans their whole lives but a whole lot more really do change their minds or grow out of it. Reality is a lot more complex than you presented there.

Teens are an odd case, though - hormonal surges lead to all sorts of weird and temporary feelings about sex and sexuality. You hear stories all the time about kids experimenting with the opposite sex, only to quickly work out they're straight (or not, or bi). There's bound to be cases where kids feel a bit alien in their own bodies - especially considering those bodies are changing rapidly.

I would agree with Nova that many more of those who go on to undergo gender reassignment have probably had those feelings well before puberty.

For starters, I don't think that is the proper role of the U.S. military or any branch of government?

I largely agree but supposedly the majority of the teens who feel that way do indeed change their minds or grow out of it. That is why I opposed Shep/Nova's previous call to let children (nonadults who cannot legally give consent) from being allowed to make decisions about major life altering decisions like having their genitals removed to simulate the other gender's sex organs. Shep/Nova quite wrongly claimed otherwise and that was not just wrong but immoral and should be criminal. If an adult wants to mutalate his/her body fine as they are adults who can give consent but don't you dare touch children.

It is not your place to decide what rewards are appropriate for service. As long as it is legal they should have he freedom they defended to chose their path.

It's a tricky one - the issue of consent is serious but there is also the risk of lasting psychological harm if the kid genuinely does identify as one gender but is forced to remain birth gender until age of consent. Always lots of gray areas as society evolves and options become available that weren't previously.

Actually as a voter and tax payer it is my place in some small way to decide what rewards are appropriate for service.

And though I've never served in the military (almost every male in my family did) I do know that when people join the military they inevitably give up at least some of the freedoms that civilians take for granted.

What I think is interesting is that no one has yet to bring up gender dysphoria.