Confederate Soldiers and their Motivations

I feel like this should be a topic separate from the Charlottesville thread. I mentioned that Lee didn't fight for the preservation of Slavery, but for the protection of his land, state and family. In fact, many soldiers had similar motivations. Keep in mind, during the early days of the civil war people couldn't conceive of the thought of a President sending federal troops into their backyards and would feel compelled to defend their land and family. Many people were closely connected to their state and would defend it with their lives. Most soldiers weren't even thinking about slavery. Slavery was the political issue and served as the backdrop of the war, for most, was not their motivations for fighting. Here's an interview of a confederate soldier who seems to think slavery was a secondary issue. It's the last few minutes that are important.

Lincoln movie explains why slavery was a joke.

I used to think like that. The image of the noble citizen soldier defending their homes against the northern oppressor. The romantic image is even draped in the trappings of the original minutemen from the days of Concord and Lexington. And then, after many years of soul searching, I concluded that I was simply wrong.

South Carolina was the first state to secede. Their articles of secession mentioned slavery 15 times on the first page. The first page! The Confederate Constitution mentions slavery 10 times including this little gem: "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed" right in Article I! Talk about up front and in your face.

No, we shouldn't be tearing down monuments. But, outside of monuments, a Confederate flag has no place in the United States in the 21st Century. Whether it was the original meaning or it was co-opted is meaningless. It is a symbol of division in a nation that desperately needs symbols of unity. How can I say that I love my neighbor when I celebrate a banner that sought to keep him in bondage? No sir, I will not stand for it.

Hers a clip that explains the situation brilliantly.

The politics of the Confederacy is not in question, but I doubt most soldiers were thinking of preserving slavery while getting shot at in the field.

They wouldn't have been in the field except for the politics. You can't separate one from the other. Fighting for an evil cause makes you evil. Sorry, Bobby Lee (God rest his soul), but you were a willing tool of an evil regime and that will forever taint your legacy.

Here's what happened:

Once upon a time there were a bunch of rich assholes in the north and a bunch in the south. The rich assholes in the south owned darkies and made a mint off of it. The rich assholes in the north condemned it, but benefited from it by wearing clothes made from the cotton picked by said darkies.

One day, the rich assholes in the south didn't get their way and decided to form their own nation. Like a porn star, they pulled out. The rich assholes in the north formed a large army and marched south. No one but a minority of radical abolitionists gave a shit what happened to the darkies.

Both sides convinced a whole mob of dumb white hicks to fight for their cause. The rich assholes in the south ran out of dumb white hicks before the north did. War over.

Fucking shit happened over 150 years ago, and there's people around, mainly darkies, who think they whole game was about them... just like a lot of idiots who think everything is about them.

That's what happened.

Here's a black dude that addresses the flag issue quite well. As Harry Reid would say," he doesn't have that negro dialect."

His motivation wasn't the preservation of slavery, it was the preservation of his family, state and land.

The preservation of his family and land? Have you actually been to Arlington House? It's quite literally 2.09 miles (by air) from the White House on Pennsylvania Ave! Are you really telling me that his allegiance was to Richmond, 98 miles away (by air)? His state became an evil regime the moment its Articles of Secession mentioned slavery in the first paragraph and even more so when that same state willingly and knowingly joined the Confederate States of America in that same evil. Therefore, he served an evil regime. Fact.

the average foot soldier? Well intentioned but ignorant and heavily manipulated sap recruited by the wealthy to defend his wealth.

The generals and decision makers? Reprehensible slaveowners who got hundreds of thousands of relatively innocent poor people dead in n effort o defend the institution that kept them wealthy. They are all villians.


We should absolutely preserve an accurate record of history, that we may learn from it. Respect cemeteries and memorials as well.

Monuments? Monuments say "this dude was a hero, let's revere and honor him"

Fuck that. Knock 'em down.

By that token, are liberals correct in bashing veterans from the Iraqi war? After all, Bush's war for oil is evil, too.

I say that because I've served in the military and I'm aware of how easily duped so many recruits can be. Given how slow information was to pass in those days, it was a whole lot easier for the Confederacy to sell that lie.

I believe individual soldiers, many of whom enlisted in place of a wealthy plantation owner's son, didn't care much about the slavery aspect. But the assholes who started the war sure as fuck did, because of greed. As you said, it's in plain English, right in the very first page of the secession letter.

(Also, Muad Dib is rolling in his grave now )

Fuck you. I'm well aware slavery wasn't Lincoln's initial motivator for engaging SC. That doesn't change the fact that a good portion of the United States decided to leave the union because they were that afraid of liberals putting the pressure on Lincoln to end their "peculiar institution."

Well.... you retarded cunt... I believe I covered that when I said "One day, the rich assholes in the south didn't get their way and decided to form their own nation."

You should learn to read for comprehension.

I'm telling you that Robert E. Lee stated pretty clearly in his letter that he was fighting for his home. Was his allegiance to Richmond, yes it was, many people had allengence to their states at the time. Still doesn't mean he was fighting for the preservation of slavery.

Also, what would you do if you saw federal troops marching into your town?

By this logic, we should tear down the Washington monument and the Jefferson memorial. Where's the calls for tearing down schools named after Wilson?

I doubt most German soldiers in World War II were thinking about gassing Jews while they were getting shot at, either. But you don't see the Germans putting up monuments to Heinrich Himmler.

What do you think most Nazis were thinking about while getting shot at by Allied troops? What do you think most Taliban are thinking about when they're planting bombs? What do you think most ISIS members are thinking about while they're raping Yazidi women? What do you think most North Korean soldiers are thinking right this very moment?

Or is it just your great grandpa you're trying to drum up sympathy for here?

Depends on what sort of immoral, inhumane shit my town is attempting to get away with.

/thread

The reason Nazism doesn't thrive in its native land is because Germany had the damn sense to be extremely embarrassed and shamed for it's history, to the point that Hitler's surviving siblings changed their names and his great-nephews all decided it was best not to have children.

A lie to help oneself rationalize an ugly truth is still a lie. Again, 2.09 miles from the White House.

I'm well aware of the provential attitudes of the 19th Century. Thank you.

He resigned his commission three days after the state of Virginia said that the United States was oppressive to the "slaveholding states." A mere seven days later, Virginia joins the Confederacy whose primary purpose, stated in Article 1 of their Constitution, is to preserve the status quo on negro slavery. Are you really suggesting that Lee was unaware of these things?

If they were marching down Main Street with the mission of freeing slaves, I'm going to offer them a bottle of water and a hearty God speed!

You're exactly right! When Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers to put down the insurrection in South Carolina, it was after the slavery supporting rebels in South Carolina attacked a Federal Installation. People tend to forget that.

Lets put it in a way that's easy to understand:

South Carolina secedes > South Carolina forces attack Fort Sumter > President Lincoln calls for volunteers to put down the rebellion > Regular US Army troops start heading south > Virginia gets scared because President Lincoln is serious about this > Virginia realizes it has slaves too > Virginia secedes > Robert E. Lee resigns his commission in the US Army and turns down command of the same to go fight for a State who is scared to death it may loose its slaves.

Totally different, we all knew the Nazis were evil, this was a civil war, different circumstances, different motivations.

My family never owned slaves and as far as I know we're too busy farming to worry about the war.

Historical context matters not then?

In some things? Yes. In the question of whether or not it's okay to own another human being as property in a supposedly free country? Not so much...

was the purpose of the war participated in by Washington and Jefferson the perpetuation of human slavery?

No? Well then...

Oh, you want me to really step in it? I never met Muad Dib. I never had the opportunity to look him in the eye, shake his hand, and have some frank conversations with him. That said, without exception, every single reenactor and every single member of a Confederate heritage organization (both male and female) that I have actually met has turned out to be openly racist once they felt comfortable around you or had a few drinks. Every reenactment I have ever attended has had blatant White Supremacist literature sprinkled in with the other historical literature on the info tables at the event.

The Civil War was only about slavery.

Civil War apologists like Federal Farmer always try the states right issue line but one only has to to look at what state rights issue the states were fussing over. It was slavery and the right of the states to have slaves.

There is no other state rights issue that the southern states were upset over. They weren't upset over any other issue except the one they believed that Lincoln was going to move against and that was slavery.

You see this in their declarations on why they seceded from the country. You see it in their conversation with each other and to the people of the seceding states in order to justify why they left the union. You see it in their writings on the subject of why they seceded from the country.

Last but not least you can see the changes in the Confederate Constitution. Slavery is more clearly defined and enshrined as a right in the Confederate Constitution.

No one with a rational mind can claim states rights was the main issue. Lincoln was anti-slavery and the Southern states believed he would end slavery the moment he took office. So they bailed out before he took office. President Buchanan was on duty as POTUS when the South started leaving and he didn't do a damn thing to try and stop them. His inaction allowed the South time to get better organized.

Clearly the Civil War was about slavery.

Only retards think otherwise.

I remember the totally complete, I mean amazing, documentary on the civil war they did in the 1990's...

So they had a union and a confederate soldier some where in Tennessee and the Confederate soldier asked the union soldier "just what are you people fighting for, anyway?"

So the the union soldier thinks for a little while then he shouts back "to restore the union6!" After a while the union soldier says "Johnny Rebel? What are you fighting for?" To which the rebel shouts "Because you are down here!"

When you stop and think about it; that is an entirely satisfactory answer.