The Panda in the Room

Breaking this off from the COVID-19 thread.

Let's talk China.

You know, the country that's given so much to the world: the Asian Flu, the Hong Kong Flu, Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and now the Novel Coronoavirus (COVD-19).

Not being xenophobic but facts are facts.

China is a vastly overpopulated territory. It's government is often more interested in preserving the state than doing what's best for its people or the planet. It's environmental practices are severely lacking. Hygiene practices are severely lacking (wet markets being a prime example). Western countries have shifted a significant portion of their industrial and commercial production to China, even though it's a well-established fact that the country engages in both political and economic espionage and sabotage.

So the question is: is China really good for the planet and for the human race?

Discuss.

I should also point out that the western world doesn't get off so lightly. By shifting a good portion of their economies to China, all in the pursuit of the bottom dollar, North America and Europe bear a lot of responsibility for creating this mess.

I wonder what a post-COVID19 world will look like. Is globalization actually good thing?

@We Are Borg is turning into a Republican. Welcome to the dark side.

Conversation I had on FB, when someone (not me) used the term "Wuhan Virus"
Crazy girl: "Why are you using that appalling name?"
Me (thinking I'm being reasonable): "Well, diseases are often named for the place or person of origin. If this had started in Phoenix Arizona, we might be calling it the Phoenix Virus."
Crazy girl: "It's called COVID 19!! Go ahead, encourage xenophobia!! WE SEE YOU!!!"



Who is we? Does she report up the chain to SJW HQ??

Fuck, no. They're morons.

But once the world gets through the other side of this, there needs to be some serious discussions about how and why we got where we are.

China is not at all harmful to the world. Collectivist authoritarian governments, on the other hand . . .

OK Nazi.

The criticisms you make of China are applicable almost everywhere to a greater or lesser degree.

All right, racist pieces of shit that want to blame China because they're racist pieces of shit are gonna use a lot of the same arguments as WAB and Forbin.
That's what they'll hide behind.
It'll be identical at the molecular level.
So, why make them happy?
Why help them?
Err on the side of avoiding their arguments.
Find another path to your point.

Maybe you can talk some sense into Forbin and We Are Borg before it is too late?

"wet" meat markets are harmful to the world. These are illegal in China. Which has an effective authoritarian govt. It's the capitalistic human tendencies that drove this (profiteering on rare animal meat).

I support globalization. I think it's been a huge benefit for the entire world. It's not only made us wealthier, it's raised billions out of poverty.

That said, China, which has benefited enormously from globalization and now wields enormous economic power, has done some troubling things lately. They seem to have known about this virus earlier than they claimed. They have suggested that this latest virus comes from the U.S. despite all evidence. They have threatened retaliation--including cutting off of vital medicines--to anyone who impugns China over this outbreak.

That last one crossed the line for me. We should immediately set about excising China from the supply chain for key medicines, as even hinting that they might weaponize supply of those makes them untrustworthy.

This is what's put the hair across Trump's ass.
And we know he can't not hit back.
He can't help himself.
He's a little kid on the playground during the "rag on each other's mom", contest.
And we all knew this is what he was during the campaign trail.
As far back as the Rosie O'Donnell pissing match, fer chrissakes.
And people like oldfella thought it was just awesome.

I agree, that is indeed a low blow. Lets just hope any scurrilous rumours of any other country attempting to gain a monopoly on said vaccine, is only a scurrilous rumour.......

CNN was calling it the Wuhan flu - there's a montage of several reporters doing it. I'm guessing a lot of folks were calling it that - no biggie.

Your President literally did the same thing.

agree! Cheap Chinese electronics, clothing, toys, etc? I have no problem with that. But medicines, building materials and other things that might end up harming us? Not a good idea. We need to become self reliant in these areas.

As I said in my second post, western nations have a lot of culpability in this whole affair. When the world's largest manufacturer of medical masks is in China, that's going to pose some national health and security risks. How was this allowed to happen?

Also, this thread is proof that humanity can't have nice things (or rational discussion).

It only took 10 posts before RACIST!!!1! was trotted out.

Meanwhile, given what we know now, we should change the name of the "Spanish flu" to "Kansas flu."

Again, not blaming anyone - simply pointing out that diseases are often name for the place they originated.
Ebola was called Ebola because it originated in the Ebola region of Africa? Is "Ebola" a racist term? No, it's just a name. Nobody seemed upset about calling it that. It's just a clinical naming system.

Some people feel that if they don't call someone a racist at least once a day, they're not fulfilling their duty to society. Or something.

China also provides a lot of the alcohol and packaging used by the disinfectant wipes, hand sanitizer, etc. industry. Or so I've heard.

Do you really want to risk the same stale Dorothy and Toto pun trotted out every time someone uses that phrase?

More accurate to say It's the human tendencies.

"Capitalism," or 'free markets,' simply recognizes that people are selfish, profit/utility maximizing creatures. Socialism etc. OTOH assume facts that have never been in evidence; i.e. when not at gunpoint, people will never behave in a manner that places some notion of greater good over their own self interests (however broadly a person might interpret that concept).

And has the evidence of where the CCP's Wuhan Death Germ originated moved away from "bats?"

Selfish, profit oriented people are the backbone of capitalism, not a side effect.

The origin is thought to be a bat virus-pool that crossed over to a species valued for its meat and from there to humans, not directly from bats to humans.

Side effect was never suggested.

One proceeds the other. Human nature first, free markets [optimal system found (so far)] second.

Human nature is the constraint the makes free markets the best - find a way to change human nature before you can successfully abolish free choice of association and commerce.

Again, something that actual racists say in exact molecular detail.
Stop using their arguments.

Stop eating bats, and shit.

You seem to know a lot about "actual racists", Honky. Is there something you're not telling us? I saw that Klan robe hanging in your window when I drove through your neighborhood. Don't tell me you don't have a replica of the General Lee from Dukes of Hazzard in your garage.