"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Steal Your Face, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Ukraine can only offer to request that the West drop sanctions. It has no power over sanctions themselves. They can offer to reject NATO membership or military assistance, but that's different than it being offered.

    The Western allies will certainly consider their requests, but there's no guarantee there's any unitary action at all - each government can react according to their own perceptions of the issue.
  2. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Interesting, to be sure. I certainly think Russia's relatively modern economy is doomed.

    However, that doesn't necessarily translate into a loss of political power for Putin. I hope it does, but control over what's left of the economy and the military means he can bunker down and actually increase his relative power.

    And the assumption that individual groups will blame their local government seems misguided. They will believe what the propaganda tells them to believe - and that will be that the West is responsible. And, of course, there is a large element of truth to that.

    Again, would love to be wrong. But I'd say it's more likely the current regime survives for the next decade then fails.

    And it will be very interesting to see what China does. They are likely to prosper and quite likely could have another client state by the end of this.
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  3. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Historically, any Russian leader who starts a war and doesn’t gain additional territory as a result of it doesn’t live very long. Nicolas was only one of a number of Czars who met an unfortunate end due to losing a war.

    I don’t think that the Ukrainians are keen on giving up any of their soil. So if Putin gets out of this thing with no additional territory and doesn’t get executed or assassinated, he’ll be the first Russian leader to do so in over 500 years.
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  4. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Can't see Starbucks doing this, unless we're talking BSG.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/wor...4045e05fbc655faa01f212&pinned_post_type=share
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  5. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  6. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Yeah, I've heard that one recently. It's most certainly not true. The Crimean War, the Russo-Japanese War, the Polish-Soviet War (1919-1921), the Finnish White Guard War, just to name a few.
  7. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Old (racist as fuck) joke in Britain was that "It's a man's life in the British Army, but it's an Afghan's life in the Russian Army".

    Proxies in war aren't limited to the Russians, though. Ask India and Pakistan.
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  8. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Well, this certainly doesn't help their cause: Ukrainian soldiers kneecapping Russian POWs.

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  9. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    YouTube account that hasn't posted for 3 years, until 7 days ago when they posted a vid of Russian helicopters to Flight of the Valkyries?

    Yes, that sounds like an unbiased source.

    FFS, Paladin, I thought you were only this fucking stupid for Trump.
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  10. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Tell me, what happened to the Czar leading Russia during the Russo-Japanese War?
  11. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  12. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Nothing because of that war. He was overthrown due to World War One. And of course that doesn't impact the other three wars I cited.
  13. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    And Nixon wasn’t pushed out of office because of the break in, but the cover up. I’m on my phone, but I believe that the Czar running things during the Crimean War was assassinated when things went south there and other places.

    Point being that if you’re a Russian leader and you lose territory, you’re going to meet an unhappy end. Maybe not because of the loss of territory directly, but it plays a factor in it.
  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    And, in fact, the Revolution of 1905 was a direct consequence of the humiliating defeat by Japan.
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  15. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I suggest you brush up on Russian history if you think that the consequences of that war for the Tsar were "nothing".
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  16. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Here's a pretty good analysis of some of the forces driving Russia...

  17. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    His response to a California law limiting the number of weapons to be purchased didn’t raise any flags?
  18. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Look, I've said before: assume everything you see in social media is a psy-op.

    Do I know if this is genuine? No, I do not. But I know that it is making the rounds and that many people are believing that it's genuine and therefore worthy of WF's attention.

    I'm not going to refrain from commenting on something significant just because it doesn't support "my side." I'm adult enough to look at all sides and come to my own conclusions; I don't need anyone to censor ostensibly pro-Russian propaganda, especially since the track record on that is pretty shaky.
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  19. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Nicholas was a very ineffective Czar and hated among his people. He was also ill prepared when his father died and not really up to the job. He was extremely incompetent. I'm also pretty sure he hated being Czar. Putin is not. He might have just enough power to hang on after this is all over.
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  20. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    If you think it's bullshit, why not say so? :clyde:
  21. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I don't know if it's bullshit or not.
  22. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Do you see how it can be assumed that if you put something out there without any comment that it could come across as you believing it? :chris:
  23. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    If I put it out there, it's unimportant what I think. I could believe it's real, or I could be a Russian bot planting disinformation.

    It's important what you think.

    I can't vouch for its authenticity. I'm only reporting it's out there.
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  24. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Sounds like Fearless Leader saying "I heard"..."A lot of people are saying"....
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  25. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Except you DID comment on it. You didn't just report it.

    Not "if it's real, it doesn't help their cause".

    I didn't think you were this stupid. Don't fucking make the mistake of thinking we are.
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  26. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    You can dismiss it as complete bullshit if you like. I make no claim it is genuine.

    But, again, it's out there, and it's going to be significant.

    If Russian soldiers believe they're going to be tortured, they're more likely to fight on than surrender.
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  27. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Alex Jones relies on twats like you.

    I mean at least they can write "useful" on your grave alongside "idiot".
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  28. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    The video--genuine or not--will hurt their cause.

    Incidentally, though I can't be sure, I do tend to believe it's real. But I'm certainly open to arguments that it's not. I'm firmly Team Ukraine (or, at least Team Anti-Putin), so I'd much prefer it to be false.

    One thing I'm not going to do: say it's false just because I don't like the implications of it being true.
  29. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    I've said this video is making the rounds and it will have an impact. Sorry for informing you about that.
  30. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    You couldn't inform a turd that it stinks.

    Or recognize propaganda when you see it, which has been obvious since you backed Trump balls-deep until it became clear he'd committed treason, and even now you'll try and wriggle out of that one.

    I have no doubt any video the Kremlin puts out will impact the troops. They are part of that bubble.

    You aren't.

    Or aren't MEANT to be.

    Yet you're playing their game under the utterly transparent "just asking questions/letting you know" schtick.

    Fuck's sake, man, even Storm would shoot you in the fucking face for this.

    Because Nazis hate Commies.

    The rest of us would just shoot the survivors.
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