Roe v. Wade

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by We Are Borg, May 17, 2021.

  1. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    God doesn't exist, the Bible doesn't say a word about abortion, and you are going to find out just how many of us are out here that understand how full of shit you are. Really, really soon.
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  2. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    YOu're going to have to help me out. Please point to a chapter and verse in the Bible that leads you to believe saying such things is acceptable?
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  3. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Actually, the Bible has instructions on how to perform one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
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  4. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Yep, religious objection to abortion was invented out of thin air by evangelicals wanting revenge for desegregation.
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  5. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    TLS?
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  6. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    The Taliban would be very proud of Americans right about now, well done USA!
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  7. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Hello?
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  8. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    Have you had an abortion?
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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I always think about the time you reacted so badly to the assertion you're a WBC type with a less confronting veneer.
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  10. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    So, you've never read the Bible and have no idea what's in it? Here's a clue - I am not in the Bible, so you will not find any chapters or verses specifically referencing my reproductive choices.
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  11. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    Why are you so bitter? Don't you have a son? What if you had aborted him and ripped him from your womb? Can you imagine what you and he would have missed out on in life?
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  12. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    More of this. Again, point to the chapter and verse in which God/Jesus states it's acceptable for you to speak to others in such a way.
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  13. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Not really - the rest of the civilized world is perfectly fine with abortion and it’s not even close

    So really all you’re talking about is a few million people in the USA that want to control what women can do with their bodies, are totally ok with not giving children support once they’re born, choose guns over kids getting shot in school and are just generally miserable people

    I don’t think history is going to be kind to you guys tbh
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  14. Will Power

    Will Power If you only knew the irony of my name.

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    To @Ten Lubak , you hit a Grand Slam way out of the park with your very last post replying to @Chaos Descending

    :techman: :techman:
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  15. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Leave it a conservative Canadian curmudgeon to so clearly analyze what's going in the U.S.
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  16. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    It remains a mystery! I still don't think they'll actually do it.
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  17. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    For the conservatives to lose control of the Court, there are really only a few possibilities. The ones I can think of:

    1. There are enough positions added to the Court so that liberals/moderates can assert a 7-6 majority;

    2. Two or more conservatives are replaced so that there is at least a 5-4 liberal/moderate majority.

    3. Two or more of the current conservatives have a change in philosophy so that there is a 5-4 liberal/moderate majority.


    So-called court-packing seems extremely unlikely. The Dems don't seem to have either the stomach for it or the votes, but I suppose that could change.

    The chances of any of the current Court switching their judicial philosophy so fundamentally at this point is near zero.

    Even assuming there is a realization soon of the problems with the current court and voters start to turn against the Republican Party in droves, there's not likely to be an opportunity to replace enough current conservative members of the Court any time soon. Clarence Thomas is 74, and so could reasonably be expected to continue to serve for about another decade. I don't think it's realistic that he might be impeached and removed from office for things his wife did or failing to recuse himself. Even once there is an opportunity to replace someone, it's not necessarily so easy to accomplish, which is why there is AG Garland instead of Justice Garland. And of course, the current conservative majority of SCOTUS could probably bar any attempts to reform it, impeach its members, etc.

    Also, for a good portion of the country, what we might see as damage, they see as delightful. They're like, bring on making gay marriage illegal, ending contraception rights for both married and unmarried couples, ending "special" rights for gays (or at least, those things are a small price to pay for saving the lives of the unborn).
  18. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    It doesn't matter. This country is well and truly fucked. Time to get out while the gettin is good.
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  19. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    The only viable path is winning enough senate seats to overturn the fillibuster while retaining the House. It's a hard road - but possible. On all the major issues the population sides with the Dems, including all the issues this court is devoted to attacking. It's going to take a big pull to get there, and it might not happen for many years.

    Though one thing I definitely hope to see before the end - Justice Barak Obama.
  20. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Won’t happen. He’s too old. Bush and Trump went out of there way to find young ideologues who could pass their purity tests. He’d be great, though.
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  21. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Hmm, I wonder if Ted Wheeler will get gassed.
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  22. StarMan

    StarMan Fresh Meat

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    Not directed at me, but I'd like to respond with "No - but if I were capable of one, the only regret I'd have is the baby I murdered / cluster of embryonic cells I flushed wasn't you."

    You know nothing of the pain this will inflict. Nothing.

    Had abortion clinics been the norm in the 70's, my mother would have avoided some truly monstrous outcomes in her life.

    What a fucking embarrassment to most Americans. I'm sorry. The rest of the world (who it appears I'm now speaking for) know most of you aren't sociopathic scum.

    But for fuck's sake, your system is a wreck. Fetishized gun culture, no universal healthcare and now Row v Wade out the door. Time to put your little flags down and drop any asinine shred of jingoism. Does the whole fucking thing really need to collapse for things to change?

    And yes, I know the last paragraph doesn't help. Sorry.

    Oh, and also - again - fuck you TheLonelySquire.
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  23. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    As fun as it would be to watch the right-wing meltdowns that Justice Barack Obama would result in, he's 60 years old. One of the ways conservatives have retained power despite the majority of the country voting against them over and over is by consistently nominating justices in their 40s.

    Besides, it's time to let the man enjoy his retirement.
  24. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    YOu can't reason with him. He doesn't have the intelligence. The best you can do is get him to accept that he isn't christian by his own behavior.
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  25. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    From the NYT Interpreter newsletter:

    When Trying to Escape an Abortion Ban Brings Risk, Too

    The flood is coming. With the Supreme Court’s decision today overturning Roe v. Wade, abortion is no longer a protected constitutional right in the United States. A wave of so-called trigger laws will now outlaw abortion in many states across the country.

    Some are trying to find consolation in the idea of the blue islands that will remain — states where abortion rights will be protected, and where, potentially, women who need abortions could flee to receive medical care.

    But a look outside the United States, at other countries that have banned abortion, shows a sobering reality: The same circumstances that make an abortion medically vital can also make travel extremely difficult, or impossible.

    Knowing that this day was coming, I was struck this week by the ordeal of an American woman in Malta that offers a very clear, and chilling, warning about the new world more Americans may face.

    Andrea Prudente, a 38-year-old photographer who lives near Seattle, and her partner, Jay Weeldreyer, expected their trip to Malta to be a “babymoon” where they could connect with each other while enjoying the Mediterranean sun and local sights.

    But a few days after they arrived in Malta on June 5, Ms. Prudente, then 16 weeks pregnant, began to miscarry. A few days later, her water broke and her placenta began to detach, making it impossible for the fetus to survive, according to Dr. Isabel Stabile, a gynecologist who has worked with Doctors for Choice, a Maltese advocacy group.

    That news was devastating, the couple told me. This was very much a wanted pregnancy. As they were grieving, they realized that their situation was worse than they had imagined, and Prudente’s own life was now in danger. A scan revealed that her cervix was open, and the umbilical cord was protruding, leaving her at risk of a fatal infection, as well as hemorrhage from the detaching placenta, Dr. Stabile said. The best way to protect Prudente from those potentially deadly complications would be for a doctor to remove the placenta and fetus from her uterus.

    But she was soon confronted with a major obstacle: Because the fetus’s heart had not yet stopped, the procedure would be illegal in Malta, where abortion is criminalized. So Prudente and Weeldreyer began a desperate race against the clock to escape from Malta before infection set in — one that only resolved last night, seven days after her water first broke, when she finally managed to get a private air ambulance to Spain.

    The difficulties that Andrea Prudente faced are instructive here: She couldn’t just get on a plane and leave Malta, because her partial miscarriage meant that she was at risk of a life-threatening midair hemorrhage. She could only leave by air ambulance, a staggeringly expensive option.

    Ms. Prudente’s crisis was the latest in a series of incidents that have shown how abortion restrictions can leave women in deadly danger — and how travel to a more permissive jurisdiction can be difficult or impossible.

    It is a danger that women already live with in Malta, Poland and other jurisdictions where all or nearly all abortions are banned. And it is one that women now potentially face in the United States, where abortion will now be illegal across a large swath of the country.

    State laws banning abortion in the United States will probably include exceptions for cases where the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother, which Malta’s abortion ban, one of the strictest in the world, does not have.

    But recent history suggests that such exceptions do not necessarily work as intended. Poland’s strict abortion law, for instance, allows doctors to terminate a pregnancy when the woman’s life is at risk. But when a young woman named Izabela Sajbor went to a hospital last year in much the same condition as Andrea Prudente — her amniotic membranes ruptured, and a fetus whose heart was still beating — doctors refused to act, apparently fearful that they might be prosecuted for performing an illegal abortion. She died of sepsis.

    In 2012, the same thing happened to Savita Halappanavar in Ireland, despite a court ruling that established that women have a right to an abortion in situations where pregnancy is a threat to survival. After Halappanavar died, her case became a rallying cry for abortion rights activists, and helped spur a 2018 referendum that legalized abortion in Ireland.

    Luckily, Prudente’s travel insurance would cover the medical evacuation — a truly exceptional privilege that most women in Malta, even the well off, cannot access.

    But even that was no guarantee she could leave. IMG, her insurance company, initially hoped to evacuate her to London, only to abandon that plan when its medical team determined that the three-hour flight would be too risky, Mr. Weeldreyer said they were told by the IMG medical team. Italy, Malta’s nearest neighbor, was ruled out because so many of its doctors refuse to perform abortions that they could not be confident she would get the care she would need.

    Eventually, after days of wrangling, IMG determined that the Spanish island of Mallorca would be the best option.

    Until IMG managed to evacuate her on Thursday night, the clock was ticking. Ms. Prudente’s seven-day course of potent antibiotics started last Thursday.

    “It feels like torture,” Prudente told me as she waited to leave. Every hour she waited added to the risk of infection or other catastrophic complications, as well as to the psychological pain of being trapped in grief and fear.

    “We both sighed from relief partway through the flight when it sank in that she was safe and going to be fine,” Weeldreyer told me via email.

    Prudente’s experience has left her deeply disturbed about the situation for Maltese women, who do not have the option of taking an expensive air ambulance out, as she did. “How are any Maltese women choosing to get pregnant here? It’s so dangerous,” she said.

    “Presuming I survive this,” she said, “I want this to change.”

    “This is wrong, and it should not happen to anyone else.”

    At the time she spoke, her words described the foreign country she now regrets visiting. But today they now apply equally well to the America she will return to.
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  26. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    My 11-Year-Old Patient Was Pregnant. Here's What I Want You To Know About Being 'Pro-Life.'


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  27. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    As long as he was able to keep his guns, everything is all right.
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  28. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    You are an aspect of evil.
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  29. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    No, not even that.
    If you can get at least five thugs to say they're Christian, boom, that's a tribe, and the tribe have spoken.
  30. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Re: The Miscarriage case, and the raped 11 year old, yeah, all you'll get from the TLS's of the world is "oh well, sucks to be them, they've gotta shut up and take it for the team".