January 6th Primetime Hearings

Oooh, Agent Vreenak does have a certain ring to it.

You mean the US civil war where the states that seceded to protect their rights (to own other humans)?

I mean the US civil war where southern states seceded so that they could govern themselves.

So they could own other human beings.

I take it that as a historian from the south that you're familiar with the Cornerstone Speech...

Oh, you’re under the impression that only the slave owners supported secession.

you'll provide examples to the contrary, right?





































right?

The non-slave owners (including some of my ancestors) were the MAGA of their time: suckers.

Do you believe in the right of the people to self govern?

Man you're a shitty historian.

Yes, but not if that right includes owning other people.

I'm funny that way.

The Confederate States clearly didn't, what with them seceding in order to protect their ability to own other humans and not allow them to govern their own lives.

I’m not a historian.

It’s interesting.

The Slavers’ Rebellion isn’t some ancient history.

We don’t have to hold a seance to try and figure out why the states rebelled.

THEY FUCKING TOLD US.

I don’t mean a speech here or there that was preserved but there were literally HUNDREDS of pro-secession newspaper Op-Eds we have records of.

And with digitalization it is quite easy to search them.

Some actual historians have gone through them looking at the rationales given.

Guess the one issue EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. referenced (no other issue was mentioned in more than 20%):

A) Tariffs
B) Taxes
C) Slavery

Fun fact, the only known slaver in my family fought for the Union.

Stephen Fowler Hale, Alabama's Commissioner of Secession to Kentucky, in a letter to Kentucky Governor Beriah Magoffin, concerning the reasons for secession. Letter dated Dec 27th, 1860.

"[Lincoln's election] was nothing less than an open declaration of war, for the triumph of this new theory of government destroys the property of the South, lays waste to her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a Santo Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations and her wives and daughters to pollution and violation to gratify the lust of half civilized Africans - especially in the cotton states, where blacks often outnumber whites ten to one...

What Southern man, be he slave holder or non-slaveholder, can without indignation and horror contemplate the triumph of negro equality, and see his own sons and daughters in the not distant future associating with free negros upon terms of political and social equality, and the white man stripped by the haven daring hand of fanaticism of that title to superiority over the black race which God himself bestowed?"

Later on in the letter:

"We can... preserve an institution that has done more to civilize and Christianize the heathen than all human aspects besides- an institution alike beneficial to both races, ameliorating the moral, physical, and intellectual condition of one and giving wealth and happiness to the other. If we fail, the light of our civilization goes down in blood, our wives and our little ones will be driven from their homes... the dark pall of barbarism must soon gather over our sunny land, and the scenes of West India emancipation, with its own attendant horrors and crimes, be reenacted in their own land upon a more gigantic scale."

After a brief aside indicating why asking free states to join the Confederacy would only cause it to grow weaker, he finished:

"Will the people of the North cease to make war upon the institution of slavery and award to it the protection guaranteed by the Constitution? The accumulated wrongs of many years, the late action of their members of Congress refusing every measure of justice to the South, as well as the experience of all the past, answers No, Never!

Will the South give up the institution of slavery and consent that her citizens be stripped of their property, her civilization destroyed, the whole land laid waste by fire and sword? It is impossible. She cannot, she will not. Then why attempt to hold together hostile States under the stipulation of a violated Constitution? It is impossible. Disunion is inevitable."

The Southern Punch, editorial by John Wilford Overall, entitled the New Heresy, September 19th, 1864.

Note: this was in reference to the discussion of arming and freeing slaves to fight for the Confederacy, which had gone from being excoriated as treason and abolition to real if not popular discussion after the fall of Atlanta. Emphasis in the original editorial.

"The people of the South,’ says a contemporary, ‘are not fighting for slavery but for independence.’ Let us look into this matter. It is an easy task, we think, to show up this new-fangled heresy — a heresy calculated to do us no good, for it cannot deceive foreign statesmen nor peoples, nor mislead any one here nor in Yankeeland. . . Our doctrine is this: WE ARE FIGHTING FOR INDEPENDENCE THAT OUR GREAT AND NECESSARY DOMESTIC INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY SHALL BE PRESERVED, and for the preservation of other institutions of which slavery is the groundwork.”

We have dissolved the late Union chiefly because of the negro quarrel. Now, is there any man who wished to reproduce that strife among ourselves? And yet does not he, who wished the slave trade left for the action of Congress, see that he proposed to open a Pandora's box among us and to cause our political arena again to resound with this discussion. Had we left the question unsettled, we should, in my opinion, have sown broadcast the seeds of discord and death in our Constitution. I congratulate the country that the strife has been put to rest forever, and that American slavery is to stand before the world as it is, and on its own merits. We have now placed our domestic institution, and secured its rights unmistakably, in the Constitution. We have sought by no euphony to hide its name. We have called our negroes 'slaves', and we have recognized and protected them as persons and our rights to them as property.

- Robert Hardy Smith, as quoted in An Address to the Citizens of Alabama on the Constitution and Laws of the Confederate States of America (1861), Mobile, p. 19

Smith was an Alabama congressman, member of the provisional congress of the Confederacy, and Colonel in its armed forces.

I can go on for pages if you really want. They absolutely fucking told us what they were fighting for, they shouted it from every rooftop. It was the lying sacks of shit that came along later that started lying about it.

Remind you of anyone?

Some years back I was on a camping/hunting trip with some high school friends and the "civil war wasn't about slavery" got brought up. I asked if any of them had bothered to read the constitutions of any of the CSA states, where slavery was repeatedly mentioned and was even codified into law.

They got out their phones and had their eyes opened.

Yet there was at least one state that said it was because Lincoln sent in 75k troops into SC.

IIRC the CSA Constitution explicitly banned states from limiting slavery.

‘States Rights’ my ass.

Only the most gullible of rubes would buy that load of malarkey.

Like I said, the MAGA of their time.

If there were some fucking spare land we could send all the whining right wing pissbabies to I would pay for their move. That would be just to watch all the white wing trash who needed slaves and exploitation of the poor to make it try and build a new country.

These idiots think Elon Musk and Donald trump are going to live in right wing land. Who is going to do the work? Really, you are going to let meth addicted alcoholic disabled white welfare queens do the work for you? When you do get some of them to work it turns out like Jan 6th. They all get bored and wander aimlessly to take selfies before they accomplish the goal. You cannot do shit with white trump trash.

Go ahead start a civil war and you will end up losing like the last time. Go ahead and secede and you will be trying to break back into america for welfare, healthcare, and disability. All you are good for is whining and lying.

I mean, there were a lot of non slave owners who supported their right to own slaves, we all knew that

Which one?

Good. So you support their right to self govern?

Doesn’t matter what your opinion of them is, either they had the right to self govern or they didn’t.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rep-scott-perry-top-trump-000422042.html

It is looking like this has less and less to do with the documents he tried to steal and that the DOJ has some actual direction on their investigation.

When it is the DOJ and they are not asking you to turn things over they know what they are looking for and are not fishing.

I am still going to have to have my cynicism beat the fuck out of hope for not being a corpse.

I do like the description that while traveling with his family 3 agents visited him. This is a member of congress who seems to haver been pulled over while driving around with his family in the car, and the FBI took his work cell phone. Congresscritters are not pushed around by the FBI while driving with their families unless the FBI know there is some fucked up illegal shit on their phone and they need to get it before things start to go bye bye. You do not fuck with your overlords and the people who control your budget unless you know you can protect yourself from their wrath.

In all honesty, I agree with the motivations of the government to secure and retain the records of the government, and having a personal email server does go against that whole idea. Not to mention security is not the forte of hillary and possibloy whoever made her server for her so I was fine with the complaints and desire to possess such a a server. I am also aware of the abuses of pervert investigator ken star who had no business investigating bill and how that made her afraid to deal with government security. I want dedicated people, but his obsession was psychologically sick and disgusting. I do not blame her for being creeped out as he should never be allowed to creep around someone's life.

We need to shape up our government investigators, and have oversight, but that does not mean you just do it yourself because we need accountability for our government officials.