Before the election Trump supporters : "The election is rigged." Hillary supporters: "No it's not." Trump wins Hillary supporters: "The election is rigged." Trump supporters: "No it's not."
Yeah, except that there's actual EVIDENCE for the things that Hillary supporters are saying. Trump's fever dreams, not so much.
He at least helped. Did you listen to his latest podcast? He thinks that's possible, along with a lot of other things, including hacking. The further the US slides into high-tech voting, the broader the opportunities will become for stealing the election and the narrower the opportunities for figuring out, after the fact, just who exactly did it. Or even ever being sure again whether it was, or wasn't, stolen. If one looks at what I think were the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004, you had to crank up an entire organization in state after state to engage in vote-suppression and/or actually roll out the supreme court. And even then you absolutely required a close result anyway for your enterprise to have a chance of bearing fruit. If you're actually hacking the result, these factors grow less important. People will be surprised at the gulf between exit polls and "the actual results", and that will be it. Anyway, hacking could have been some Trumpevik computer-nerd sitting with a laptop on his living-room couch. Or it could have come from Russia, especially if you look at Trump's Putinophile statements and actions. For example, what has been the biggest pain in the ass for Putin in recent years? Falling oil prices, which have had a hugely negative effect on Russia's oilsale-dependent economy. And who does Donald appoint as secretary of state? A lifelong employee of Exxon, with not a whole lot on the ball about foreign affairs. But who knows the oil industry inside out. And, incidentally, was awarded in 2012 Russia's highest possible honour for a non-citizen.
Hey, all I'm trying to do is edit post 37. Instead of changing something in the post, it keeps producing a new, nonsense post. I think the Russians must be behind this.
Before we get into that, first, what is your idea of acceptable evidence? What standards of sourcing are you looking for?
Wikileaks exposing the DNC may qualify, but I'm glad they exposed them. We deserve to know these things and there's no evidence they were working directly with the Kremlin.
Why don't we start with the Democratic candidate getting the most votes and the Republican getting elected, or the Democratic Senate candidates getting the majority of votes and Republicans getting two-thirds of the seats being contested? It's not rigged at the "somebody's going to stuff the ballot box" level, it's rigged at a systemic level. Which is a lot harder to counteract.
You mean the system that's been agreed on for over 200 years as well as the system both candidates agreed on? Besides, Hillary conceded, it's over. Get over it.
The fact that it's existed for over 200 years doesn't change the fact that America votes for Democrats, and gets Republicans instead.
WOW! Maybe you should have brought this up BEFORE the election! Apparently both Trump & Hillary were under the assumption that (at least for this election) the US would be using the electoral college system versus the popular vote, like we have been doing since both of them (and all of us) have been alive.
Again ... everyone knows how the system works. This is not contested. That still doesn't mean it doesn't systematically advantage Republican candidates.
Not enough Americans in the states that have the most electoral votes to get to 270 voted Democrat. Is this so difficult to comprehend? BTW not to burst your bubble, but the "recount" keeps turning out that Trump actually got even MORE of the popular vote! Do you know how time-zones work? If 270 is met before the west coast votes are counted it's a done deal! If the first good punch you land knocks your opponent out, all the punches and kicks he planned to land (if the fight had went the distance) don't mean shit! Does that make sense to you?
Yes, I know. No, I understand it perfectly. He still finished roughly 2.8 million votes behind. Yes, and? Yes, and? Once again, I understand the system -- and the ways in which it systematically gives advantages to the Republican party -- just fine. The fact that we all know how it works doesn't in any way negate the fact that it advantages one party over the other.
So if the Dems had won would you give as much of a shit? My point is both parties must indeed have "an advantage" because the last time I checked we've had a Democrat in office since 2008.
GOODNESS! I read the thread title too fast and thought it said a different type of stone........well let's just say that I thought maybe Hillary was taking her loss too hard and it affected her health. Never mind!
Sigh...typical liberal. Always blaming the system. 1) Electoral college has been around LONG before there was ever a Republican Party. 2.) It's not the system's fault that Hillary chose to ignore Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, the three blue states that flipped for Trump. 3.) It's not the system's fault that Hillary chose to spend 1.2 billion dollars attacking Donald Trump instead of explaining to workers in those states how she was going to make their lives better. 4.) It's not the system's fault that so many democrats who voted for Obama chose to stay home on election day. 5.) It's not the system's fault that Hillary campaigned on "experience" in a year where it was obvious that being an outsider was the preffered choice for voters 6.) It's not the system's fault that Hillary was caught up in an email scandal for over a year that drove her negatives high. 7.) It's not the system's fault that Hillary chose to call Trump supporters "Deplorable", which only helped to energize his base. 8.) It's not the system's fault that the DNC chose to piss off Bernie Saunders supporters by the way they chose to run their primary. Blaming the electoral college for an election loss is like whining about scratching on the eight ball in a game of pool. You knew what the rules were before you started playing. Stop bitching and learn how to play the game.
As much as I decry the Republicans winning everything in November (I don't think much good can come from that), what you are talking about here is fundamental to the Constitution and in fact the only part of the Constitution that explicitly cannot be ammended: the equal representation of each of the states in the Senate. If you call that "rigging an election" then you have to admit that it was the framers of the Constitution who rigged it. People get all bent out of shape by the "popular vote" but only because they do not realize what is implied in a federal government: a federation of entities is not at all th same thing as one, large, democratic entity. That is true in the presidential election (the states choose the president, with each state getting a number of votes that is somewhat proportional to its population but weighted in favor of the smaller states not being entirely "shouted down" by the big ones) and is even more so in the Senate election. There is a very clear case to be made for "rigging" in terms of the House. Gerrymandering is a well-known and shameful practice. But to make the same case for the Senate is, ultimately, to denounce the very nature of a federal structure. I am not willing to take that stand because I think the federal nature of the United States is a major part of its strength.
And yet if it worked in favor of the Dems, you, Oldfella and the rest of the GOP would be pitching fits, and you know it. But honestly, even as a kid who was only a Democrat because that's what I was told, this just never made sense. And the more I look at it, the excuse of "the five biggest states will decide everything" versus "the same five swing states decide everything for us" is basically six in one hand and a half dozen in the other. And it would still be a waste of time to campaign in CA or TX that are still solidly blue and red. Edit: I missed Ansyc's post upthread. There's some good stuff there. I didn't know the electoral college couldn't be amended. And while I understand why the system is the way it is, I don't think any part of our Constitution should be beyond reproach.
I don't like the electoral college either. Remember I started a thread about it? But enough is enough, yes she won the popular vote, percentage wise it's 48-46, so two percentage points is not a freaking landslide. What is a landslide is the electoral votes and the retaining of both houses and governorships. Gerrymandering, only when it's Republicans, can't possibly be the only reason for this, neither can voter fraud or we are racists, xenophobic, misogynistic, homophobic assholes. It goes deeper than that. Gul suggested that states should change rules that require electors to go with the popular vote, I think that might be a good start. I have some ideas and thoughts that probably require a separate thread. I have been thinking about these things for years and maybe Now's the time to put them all together.
Republican: Trump's win proves that the Democrats are out of touch with the American People. Democrat: Actually it looks like Hillary is going to win the popular vote by almost 3m people. Republican: The popular vote doesn't matter. The President is picked by the electoral college. This is how it's always been dumbass. Democrat: I never suggested otherwise. Only pointing out that just b/c the system favors Republicans, doesn't mean the majority of the country does. Republican: What part of the popular vote doesn't matter are you not understanding? The President has always been picked by the electoral college. You all knew this going in, only reason you're saying anything now is sour grapes. Democrat: Yeah, I got that. I was just responding to your claim that the American people somehow rejected Hillary and the Democrats. Again, only pointing out that just b/c the system favors Republicans it doesn't mean the majority of the country does or that Trump has any sort of mandate. Republicans: 'WAAAAAAAA, I'm a liberal being oppressed by the system, WAAAAAAAAA.' Democrat: *walks away* .....week later..... Democrat: *makes policy statement* Republican: TRUMP WON! The American people have spoken and they have rejected those policies!
