The Bill to Permanently Fix Health Care for All (maybe)

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Order2Chaos, May 23, 2017.

  1. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Long read:

    https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231949

    I don't entirely subscribe to this particular notion, but it's a good starting point for a discussion.

    My initial critiques:
    • I'm not sold on the garnishing of social security disability payments.
    • Nor MFN status of wholesale drug pricing - I think that's likely to stifle drug invention and it seems like lifting reimportation bans would be a smaller-government alternative.
    • Lifestyle change policy is more complicated than it sounds due to addiction and related problems.
    • I don't see how exactly this is going to prevent pension funds blowing up.
    Thoughts?
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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    Price transparency at every service provider sounds swell.
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  3. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I agree with everything excepted for the noted lifestyle change provision. The rest looks pretty solid.
  4. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    He would dictate at a national level how healthcare is to be administered?

    The rest is him pulling numbers out of his ass.

    Need help with this one:
    "A true insurance policy is defined as one that (1) does not cover any condition you have received treatment for over the last 24 months"

    Chronic conditions aren't covered by any insurance?

    Price transparency doesn't work for complex conditions. It's a start though.
  5. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Nope, don't like it. The ability to refuse care arguing life style would end up being a massive get out of jail free card. Everyone who had a heart attack they would claim was due to lifestyle regardless of evidence.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. LizK

    LizK Sort of lurker

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    I also think the lifestyle change is more complicated. It's one thing to tell a person to change; it's another to start demanding what they eat or drink or not eat and drink, to control those changes.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Price lists? Yeah, that's gonna work...not.
  8. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    I think that's covered by the other provisions of that paragraph, namely that on diagnosis treatment has to be paid for until complete. Presumably chronic conditions would never result in complete treatment so the insurer at the time of diagnosis would be on the hook indefinitely.

    Why not?
  9. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Consumers can't make decisions in advance of being diagnosed. By then they're on the hook, even if they understand what their treatment entails. Most won't understand. No Dr is going to suggest they know in advance what everything will cost: they don't charge for every service. Ever been to the hospital? You see whatever Dr is on rotation unless you're there for something elective.

    Emergency conditions don't lend themselves to shopping around.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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    If service providers cannot predict what things cost, how exactly do they do business and and balance their sheets every month?

    Granted, there are plenty of things that would complicate price transparency. But to suggest that it can't be done at all seems fairly absurd. Clinics like the primary care centers operated by Walmart and some pharmacy chains already do this. The article references a surgery center in Oklahoma that does it.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    When was the last time you got an all encompassing estimate for damage to your car? Illness is more complex.

    I'm not saying they can't estimate costs, but there is no chiltons estimate for thoracic surgery. Anything can have complications and result in additional specialists being called in. Consumers can't make an informed choice.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  12. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    On a side note, for the "Who cares? I get coverage through my job" crowd:

    GOP Bill Could Undercut Some Job-Based Insurance Coverage

  13. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Not only that, Trump wants to tax employer contributions to health insurance (today it's pre-tax contributions). It's gonna be a huuuuuge tax increase on office drones.
    • Agree Agree x 2
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  14. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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  15. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Well, that part at least should get wide support. Never yet met a liberal who wasn't in favor of tax increases.
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  16. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    You're right, but we tend to favor sticking it to the rich, not the poor and middle class. Redistribution of wealth and all.
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  17. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Fascinating. What's it got to do with this?
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  18. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    The fact that you can't see that the entire GOP concept is bait-and-switch?
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    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  19. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    That really is the bottom line and why all the market based approaches pushed by conservatives are ultimately doomed to failure. When you are having open heart surgury you can't suddenly decline service halfway through and threaten to take your business else where if they call in two other specialist who will triple the bill.

    Market based stuff can tinker at the edges and making pricing more transparent is always good but people need to stop pretending life or death decisions are like buying a car.
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  20. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    Were we talking about the GOP health care bill in this thread? (Spoiler: no)
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  21. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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