Do You Ever Expect the intensity of anti Trump rhetoric to escalate to violence?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Dayton Kitchens, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    It's not so much about banning lobbyists as it's about placing stricter limits on corporate donations and political advertising. :async:
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  2. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Does that include union donations? And support from media outlets?
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  3. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    Obviously.
    In terms of news reporting? Reporting the new factually isn't really "support." A pre-existing political commentary show tacitly endorsing one candidate over another wouldn't be out of bounds, either. Any sort of "free" advertising outside of that should count as a donation at fair market value, though. :async:
  4. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I agree. :shrug: But I'm not necessarily in favor of banning lobbying completely. You realize that there is a range of options short of banning lobbying? For example, regulating it more, capping campaign contributions, overturning Citizens United and related SCOTUS precedent with legislation, etc. You're right that it won't fix it completely, but if we take those steps along with other related steps it can help.
  5. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I didn't make myself clear. See my above post; I don't want it banned outright, just regulated better and reduce the impact campaign contributions have.
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  6. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    I don't see how this in any way corrects the problem.

    Whether 30% of the pop directly elects 70% of the Senate or indirectly elects 70% of the Senate, 70% of the Senate will still be controlled by 30% of the pop.
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  7. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Expanding the size of the House would increase the roll of the parties while decreasing that of individual members.
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  8. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Increasing the size of any voting body is going to decrease the power of any individual voter. :clyde:

    Proportional representation with a minimum number of representatives for the least-populated state seems like the simplest way to keep representation in the House actually representative. I keep seeing crazy schemes that are much more complicated.
  9. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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    Na he is safe, they perfected how to protect presidents after Reagan was shot.
  10. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    There were serious attempts to assassinate Clinton and Bush.

    If the triggering handle on that hand grenade had not stuck Bush might well have been killed.

    If Clinton had walked outside the White House when that guy was spraying the outside of it with AK-47 fire he might've been killed as well.
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  11. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    I seriously doubt you'd see any sort of session or moves in that direction of any sort. I do think the Mueller will probably uncover so pretty bad shit though it will take a while to be made public. That will pretty much doom Trump, he will have a die hard base of around 20% but I am guessing around 1/3rd of the usually the kool aid drinking Fox viewers (the old Bush 30%) abandon him based upon the strength of the evidence. That remaining 20%? They truly do not care about facts or reality so they will keep parroting what ever the right wing propanda outlets tell them.
  12. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    I agree. Money should be banned from politics completely.

    Including rigging the game through welfare other social spending.
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  13. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    If only there was some kind of political subdivision smaller than then the entire Federal government that could handle things locally, that don't have to be handled nationally.

    If only.
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  14. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    Well, now we have Maxine Waters all but urging violence against Trump Admin folk.

    Nothing to see there, I am sure.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/25/politics/maxine-waters-trump-officials/index.html
  15. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Why not just flip the script on the Democrats make the case that the owner of the restaurant was expressing and embracing the values of freedom and liberty. Proclaim that all business owners have a right to refuse service (including not making a cake for a gay couple). So on and so forth then say something about Christian values and turning the other cheek and forgiveness and things of that nature? It seems to me that would be more effective in winning the hearts and minds of the people and Trump could still be seen as the winner rather than a whiney little bitch.
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  16. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    I keep hearing this claim but "harass" surely doesn't mean "attack violently"? I read her comments as stand up and confront members of the administration on what is going on, if you seem them in public. You only think it means attack with violence because Trump and his supporters are claiming as much?
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  17. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    "All but urging" = "not urging". I think she should have kept her mouth shut, but these idiots trying to say that she's advocating physical violence need to put down the crack pipe...or maybe pick up the crack pipe.
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  18. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Either way, there’s a crack pipe involved.
  19. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    For what it's worth, I am well aware that "all but urging" is not the same as "urging", which is why I SAID "all but urging" instead of "urging".

    And yes, I hold to the idea that what Maxine Waters said was highly stupid, and is just this side of urging actual violence.
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  20. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    "I'm not saying she was urging violence...

    ....but she was urging violence."

    maxresdefault (4).jpg
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  21. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    No, I am saying she is coming as close as she can to urging violence without actually urging violence.
  22. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Right. Because it's a razor thin line between violence and not violence. :wtf:
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  23. Tuttle

    Tuttle Listen kid, we're all in it together.

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    Federations can be rough. Protecting minorities remains a pretty crucial guarantee.
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  24. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    It is razor thin. How big a leap is it from people screaming at each other at a restaurant or on the highway to punches being thrown or weapons brought out? Not much.

    Ever notice how many police reports on a fight or murder have "words were exchanged, followed by_________"
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  25. Sean the Puritan

    Sean the Puritan Endut! Hoch Hech!

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    I don't agree with Mr. Kitchens very often at all, but when he's right, he's right. And here, he's right.
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  26. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Okay, I get it. Fair point. Even if she specifically said "non-violent", it would still be asking for "all but" violence because shit happens. Fair point.
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  27. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Fair call, all sides should probably agree that any politician who encourages violence is removed from office. Pence will be sworn in next week.
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  28. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    The thing is it's not even Maxine Waters. She's just one person. There are others calling for it too.

    Take this article from Gizmodo, Splinter

    https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-the-beginning-1827099100

    The very first picture you see in the article is:
    [​IMG]

    Then later in the article, we get this line, "This is all going to get more extreme. And it should. We are living in extreme times."

    Then this paragraph, "I do not believe that Trump administration officials should be able to live their lives in peace and affluence while they inflict serious harms on large portions of the American population. Not being able to go to restaurants and attend parties and be celebrated is just the minimum baseline here. These people, who are pushing America merrily down the road to fascism and white nationalism, are delusional if they do not think that the backlash is going to get much worse. Wait until the recession comes. Wait until Trump starts a war. Wait until the racism this administration is stoking begins to explode into violence more frequently."

    Then this paragraph, "The day will come, sooner that you all think, when Trump administration officials will look back fondly on the time when all they had to worry about was getting hollered at a Mexican restaurant. When you aggressively fuck with people’s lives, you should not be surprised when they decide to fuck with yours."

    Basically, the whole article with the picture is a call for violence without the author saying, "go do violent things to Trump's people."

    So it's not just Maxine. There are others out there as well agitating for getting in the faces of Trump's people. It's a very short step for someone to go from yelling at an administration official in a restaurant to walking up to a Trump administration official and blowing their head off and killing whoever else is with that official. Secret Service only covers department heads. It doesn't cover people like Sarah Sanders.
  29. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    yeah yeah, and there's a murder-porn column at The Federalist fantasizing about scalping liberals.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    All this ("OMG can we have some civility?!?") is so much dog & pony bullshit - even Trump tweeted Waters better "be careful what she wished for" which is much more of a threat than what she actually said.

    [​IMG]

    "Incivility" as the right would like to describe it is not new ("Hey Hey, LBJ! How many kids did you kill today!?"
    "Incivility" as the GOP actually practices it was largely invented 30 years ago - by Rush Limbaugh, and raised to an art form within politics by Newt Gingrich (who actively urged his party to get more nasty)

    Anyone who tries to tell you that things were civil until Trump came along and the left lost their shit can't be trusted to accurately tell you the time of day.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
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  30. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    also, we've already had far right fuckers shoot people dead over their political views...for YEARS. That they haven't killed a politician yet doesn't negate that fact. How many left-wing Dylan Roofs are there? How many right wing George Tillers?