The Death of Ahmaud Arbery

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Chaos Descending, May 7, 2020.

  1. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    technically yes, but when you use the word "lynching" people expect a hanging if only because for decades lynching meant hanging - people just got used to associating the two.
  2. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    The difference is that you intended to commit a crime before meeting your victim. You're also responsible for everything that happens after that crime because of that crime.

    Say your victim gets cut and gets treatment but still gets infected and dies you are responsible for that. His death can be traced back to your actions that day.

    If your victim gets cut, refuses treatment, doesn't die from the cut but later that day has a heart attack and dies they may still charge you with murder if they think they can tie the heart attack to your actions.

    In this case our two killers didn't start out with the intention to kill Arbery. At least that is what they claim. Now if the state can prove otherwise you could claim this was a lynching. Otherwise this is just two idiots getting involved where they shouldn't have and being unjustified in their use of deadly force against Arbery.
  3. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    not if they are sane. Everything would indicate they were likely to harm him whether he complied or not. If he had workout clothes on it's unlikely anyone would rob him. What's left except to harm him? Most people running don't carry their wallets. I carry my ID card tucked inside one of my socks. In retrospect once the guys got out of the truck Arbery could have sprinted away (zigging and zagging) out of shotgun range - it's doubtful either of the men could have caught him on foot, and by the time they got back in the truck he might have made it to a safe place to hide or get help - but I'd have to see the whole layout of the scene. Regardless Arbery did what he thought he could to save his life but it didn't work out. It's such a tragic but totally avoidable situation.
  4. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    If you're smart you don't do that.

    You can not outdraw an already drawn gun. You're liable to get yourself shot.

    Now if you can distract them long enough than maybe you pull your gun on them. Or maybe the safer thing is too run. Or even to comply depending on just what exactly is happening.

    Life isn't like the movies. Us gun owners aren't doing Matrix like stuff out there.
  5. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    the thing is if you don't have a gun few people will comply. That's why criminals robbing a store use guns. "Give me the money or I'll be forced to get physical!" just doesn't cut it.
    So trying a "citizens arrest" on somebody you think stole something will just net you a hearty "FUCK YOU! TRY TO HOLD MY ASS MOTHERFUCKER!" and a serious ass whipping in some cases.
    Thus if you suspect somebody of being a thief don't even try to question or detain them. Try to keep an eye on their whereabouts from a safe distance and give all information to the police.
  6. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Watch and listen.

  7. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    yep! Every situation is different and you have to adjust accordingly and try not to panic, if you are the panicky type. And hope whomever is holding a weapon on you isn't the panicky type!
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  8. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Three, or just two, beefy guys against one scrawny guy? Think the odds favor the beefy guys.
  9. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    Most "beefy guys" can't run or maneuver for shit. Their gas tank is nearly empty just walking around. :whew: They have to catch you to hit you! :yes:
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  10. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Tried to watch it but got"This media can not be played"
  11. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    How convenient. I had no problem with it. Clear your cache. Or just :lalala: as usual.
  12. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Ah! Hence the need for guns. Now I get it..., I think.
  13. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Video is working now. Great speech.

    For context as to what she is talking about....






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  14. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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  15. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    It
    Answering for myself, I'll say that answer won't fly. If a mob starts off with the intent of just teaching some uppity negra a lesson and ends up egging each other into stringing them up, that's still a lynching. It's not how it starts, it's how it ends up.
    ETA: I see you addressed that issue.
  16. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    All murders are not lynchings. All murders of blacks are not lynchings.

    We need to know more about their intentions before this can be classified as a lynching.
  17. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    People's mileage will vary, but given that one of the participants appaarently used the N-word after the deed and used it in texts as well, I am not in a particular mood to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just a honest citizen who thought there was a crime being committed and wanted to question the possible perpetrator and if guilty hold him for the authorities.
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  18. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Oh. Ok. Now, I think I understand the disconnect. In my mind, the only kind of people who would jump in a truck to chase down a black person they believe to be criminal, are racists. It may be unfair, but that is the mindset of 90% of the people I've interacted with when I was in the south.

    So, that's where I started off, where you are now.
  19. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    90% is unfair, hopefully you won't judge us all that way.
  20. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    I don't think she said that 90 percent of people in the south are racists. She said 90 percent of the people who would jump in a truck to chase down a black person they thought was a criminal are racists. Of course she would have to clarify, I don't want to put words in her mouth.
  21. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Everything I post here, or facebook, or say in person, is all said from my perspective. Things I've personally experienced in my life. I will, occasionally, post a link if I am trying to show statistical data or am referencing something someone else said. But, mostly, everything is coming from a place in which events in my life shaped my opinions.

    As for the 90% in the post above, it's a mix between @steve2^4 and @oldfella1962. No, I don't judge every southern person as racist and willing to kill someone because of their skin color.

    The people that I did interact with while in the south were in the same socio-economic situation I was - that being low-wage or poor white people.

    Of those, and this is the part that is true globally, most were angry that no matter how hard they tried, no matter how hard they worked, they could not get ahead. So, they needed to blame someone, something, some... group.

    Now, this group of angry, poor, disenfranchised white people see initiatives for angry, poor, disenfranchised black people getting help in the form of scholarships, affirmative action, and other "leg up" programs, but nothing is done for "them" they call it unfair. They only see right now. They don't see how 400 years of culminated systemic racism contributed to the situation.

    And no one likes unfair.

    and its those people of which are the 90% that I'm talking about.

    Not everyone in those shoes want to see black people and other minorities killed. But, many see them as ... someone else with whom they must fight over that last crumb.
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  22. Torpedo Vegas

    Torpedo Vegas Fresh Meat

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    Not all murders of black people by whites are lynching. But if a black man is hunted down by some hicks in trucks and shot to death because he might be a criminal, I'm willing to call that a lynching. The argument that you need a rope and tree to make a lynching is disingenuous and fucking stupid. It's like saying you can't have a real holocaust without gas chambers. Jesus Christ.
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  23. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    No, it's 90% of the people she interacted with.

    And for the record, 100% of the people that would jump in a truck to chase down a black person they thought was a criminal are racists, you racist.
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  24. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    ooh an insult! Very original! Do you write your own material?
  25. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  26. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  27. Tuckerfan

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  28. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  29. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Doesn't surprise me. From what I saw in the brief time I lived there, Georgia's system is pretty corrupt.
  30. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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