The 2020 Presidential General Election thread

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Order2Chaos, Jun 17, 2020.

  1. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    Just once, I'd kinda like to vote for someone, rather than against someone else. Maybe I'm just crazy.

    That's the problem with the whole "lesser of two evils" thing. They're both evil.

    Edit: There's nothing, absolutely nothing, that makes me want to vote for Joe Biden. Nadda. If I were to vote for him, which I'm not, it would be a vote against Trump. But, I can't vote for Trump either. I was going to abstain for the first time ever. But, I think I'll write in Jim Mattis and call it done.
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  2. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Mattis's actions and words have disappointed me bitterly of late. My level of respect for him has plummeted- not because of his obvious rancor for Trump, but how he's behaved because of it. To be fair, he's not the only retired flag officer that has said or done things that concern me the past few years. That's a topic for a different thread, however.
  3. Elwood

    Elwood I know what I'm about, son.

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    Maybe you've seen stuff I haven't? I certainly get the retired flag officer mantra. Don't get political and stay out of the way. No one wants to be labeled a MacArthur-like prima donna.

    My only complaint about Mattis' actions is that he should have used this as his excuse for resigning. I read his resignation letter and could read between the lines. But, I wish he had been as clear, and to the point. as he was in his latest release. Something similar to, "I can no longer serve the President of the United States because: *insert reasons here* Here is my resignation effective 1200 day/date."

    The vibe I got from Mattis and Kelly, to an extent, was that when it came to foreign policy, they were the adults in the room. Without their moderating influence, it was all over. Our foreign policy, what little there has been, since they left has been one mistake after another.
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  4. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  5. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Hey now. Don’t forget McMaster. It wasn’t just Marine Corps generals trying to hold our country together in the face of Trump.
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  6. K.

    K. Sober

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    Any vote of a Trump opponent not going to Biden helps Trump. I know you know that, so I am just saying this to make sure no one forgets it.
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  7. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    No. In this election the Biden voters will really be voting against a party and against a man. A party that has thoroughly discredited itself, by blindly falling into lockstep with a man who has thoroughly discredited himself.
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  8. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    One of the reasons I was so happy about Bernie and warren in the beginning of the primary was I actually liked both of their positions, their desire to fight for them, and felt their integrity was good. I also thought they would make a good leader. You may not agree with their politics, but for those that did they were candidates that actually represented their values. I can understand the massive disappointment of finally having candidates that were good and then going to Biden. What is worse is no one really seems to want biden at all. The only reason for him is he is the anti-candidate. He wasn't Bernie, and he wasn't trump.

    I think Biden will win because Trump is not Bush jr or Obama. Neither of those two sent people screaming away from their party like Trump has in the past 4 years. They had their negatives to the opposition, but Kerry and Mittens were similar nothing candidates who did not inspire a ton of positive momentum just like Biden. Neither little bush or Obama were flat out attacked by their own party like Trump is. Biden is really going to have to fuck up to blow this.
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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Playing devils advocate here, would that also apply to things like former CIA directors getting political?
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  10. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    If I have to choose between a punch in the face and being burned at the stake, choosing the punch in the face does not in any way indicate that I like it. It only means that sometimes there are situations in life that are so bad, there are no good solutions. Only less bad ones.

    However, if I refuse to choose between those options, knowing full well there are no others, it means that I don't have a real preference and am willing to let others make the choice for me.

    That's what I did in 2016, because I honestly thought that Trump and Clinton would be about equally bad. And I fully expected a divided Congress, so I figured neither of them could get very far. If I had known the Republicans would control both the House and the Senate afterward, my preference among the major candidates would have been Sanders. He couldn't have done much with Congress against him, but Congress couldn't have done too many awful things either, with a President who would not go along with their far-right agenda.

    This time, I am not willing to let others make the choice for me. I think that Joe Biden is more or less an honorable man, as politicians go, which is much more than I can say for Donald Trump. And I think Biden would let qualifications be more of a guide in choosing people for key adminstration positions than personal loyalty to him. So I will unhesitatingly vote for Biden for POTUS.

    I can understand why people in states where the outcome is a foregone conclusion can choose a third option, knowing it wouldn't make any difference. But if polls in October show less than 10% difference in your state, either way, then it doesn't make sense to let others choose for you, unless you really don't have a serious preference.
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  11. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    The audio is hilarious. She had to have it dragged out of her that, yes, she was voting for Biden. :lmao:
  12. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Which is kind of interesting, because, if she doesn't want to state who she's voting for, it's perfectly acceptable to say so. Most people will blurt it out or put it on a bumper sticker, I suppose, but if someone wants to keep their voting preferences private, that's one of the foundations of any democratic system.
  13. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Depends on their background, I suppose. Military officers and politics are always something of a special case. All retired flag officers are still subject to the UCMJ (as in they could, theoretically, be recalled to active duty and subjected to court martial if something warranted it). Never heard of that happening even once, though. Military members, however, give up certain rights when they swear the oath and put on the uniform.

    If the system worked the way it should, there would be no need for a CIA director to ever be on TV, much less worry about their politics. In fact, people wouldn't even know his/her identity, or care. Unfortunately, the CIA is as dirty as the FBI.
  14. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    There is an out for some folks: if enough people vote for a third party (5%, which would be about 7-10 million people) then that party gets federal funding (convention, presidential debates, et. al) so it can be a viable option in the next presidential election. Right now, the choice seems to be between a shit sandwich, and a shit sandwich with onions, so people might push for a third option in the hopes of hitting the critical 5% mark. It depends upon how many people believe Joe Biden is either as bad or almost as bad as Trump, and how many have become disillusioned with the Democratic party.

    Frankly, a lot of people, especially more left leaning folks, have come to think others higher up choose who we get anyway, and that our votes don't count as much as we are led to believe they do. That voting is the smallest action you can take in a civic duty, that there are more important avenues that should be addressed, and that we are kept in this belief that voting matters so much even though our options are always so direly limited in this two party system. We get to choose between rich man who doesn't give a fuck, and rich man who doesn't give a fuck but has to pretend to give a fuck, and plenty of people know that. Some are just resigned to it never changing.
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  15. K.

    K. Sober

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    Anyone who thinks Biden could be remotely as bad as the Nazi Sympathizer in Chief is insane. That's not the choice between two comparable evils. Not by any reasonable standards.
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  16. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    What the "higher ups" really want is to discourage the "wrong people" from voting in hopes they will give up entirely on the system, thus letting said "higher ups" have their way. The two tip offs to the grand strategy are negative campaigning which is designed to create a "base" of voters that will support one side or the other no matter what and give them disproportionate sway over the political process. The other is the voter suppression that republicans have raised to an art form. I'm not even going to bother posting links to support that claim. Trump has said it and republican leaders around the country have said it. Gerrymandering is a nasty political trick historically practiced by both sides, but to me, it's a result, not a cause of so many problems. The thing that pisses me off about a lot of "Never-Trumpers" is that they were beneficiaries of the Steve Atwater school of disgusting, dog-whistle politics and wedge issues. They were fine with it, until Trump came along and now they're clutching their pearls and wringing their hands over Trump's racism and corruption. The Lincoln Project is doing good work, but it's work that might never have been necessary if so many of them hadn't been seduced by the Dark Side.
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  17. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    There are different kinds of bad, and while Trump is most assuredly a Nazi sympathizer, that doesn't mean Joe Biden is good. Biden wrote the precursor to the PATRIOT Act. Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill, the same one that gives the police so much power, that helped expand the prison system, that caused a skyrocketing incarceration rate of black men, especially on drug related charges. Joe Biden is most assuredly a racist, who worked with racists in building legislation (the anti-bussing bill from the 70s immediately comes to mind), hung out with racists, lamented the deaths of racists, championed their careers, and called them good people (Strom Thurmond, for example). Joe Biden has a credible sexual assault allegation against him, and has multiple sexual harassment reports against him.

    So yeah, Joe's definitely not the same as Trump, unless you're black, an immigrant, poor, or living in another country where people dare to live on top of the oil, lithium, or gas the US wants. Then they might as well be the same person because they engage in the same actions outside of their obviously different visual and verbal aesthetic. Just because you don't hear Joe Biden singing the praises of white supremacy doesn't mean Joe Biden is better. You have to dig deeper than that and see what they really represent, and whom.

    Joe Biden should have never been selected by the DNC. It should not have happened, but Joe Biden will make a lot of people at the top very wealthy, and that's what matters when it comes to this system we live under here in the U.S.
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  18. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Someone is still feelin' the Bern. I'm dialing the whambulance for you right now. :aurora:
  19. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    So much winning
  20. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    This could quite possibly be your worst post ever :lol:
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  21. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    Trump's personal ethos is "grab 'em by the pussy," but Biden's is most definitely, "come on, man, I heard you liked me."
    They both want the same thing, whether you want to give it to them or not, the former is just far more crass about it than the latter.
  22. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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  23. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    TL, don't show your work. This board doesn't need a content-warning lawsuit.

    And it had Dan Leach's cock on it once.
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  24. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    What work did Amaris do there exactly? :lol:
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  25. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    IIRC, there's been no news about Tara Reade for over a month. Just sayin'.
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  26. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    You're only going to see awful things posted about her while Biden is running. That's why powerful men stay powerful, and why so many women don't come forward.
  27. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Do you honestly think anyone else is going to knock Biden out of the batter's box at this point? One would think before the convention would be the time to do some investigative reporting. :shrug:
  28. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    I almost feel sorry for the guys at FOX having to spin against their own poll:

    Some truth to this, oddly for FOX, but the bolded sentence is the money shot... "get that shit (that we commissioned!) off the screen (because it doesn't show what we want it to show, dammit!)"
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  29. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    There was plenty of time, it was going to be ignored anyway. Biden should have never qualified based on his record, and in a time of civil unrest and pandemic. Yet here he is. It could come out tomorrow that everything Tara said was true, and he would still get the nod. Kavanaugh pretty much sailed through the nom, despite Blasey-Ford’s best efforts.

    People like Joe Biden are how we get people like Trump. If Biden wins, the GOP will return with another one, worse than Trump, but much better heeled.
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  30. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    True story.
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