Trans activists failing to persuade people on the sports issue

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Rimjob Bob, Jan 18, 2022.

  1. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Seems like it's OK to have girl teams and boy teams, and let trans kids play on the team that matches their gender identity.

    If there's a real issue with lost wages or lost scholarships, take it up with the ones doing the hiring and the ones giving the scholarships?
  2. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I identify as a 73 year old man, can I get Medicare now?
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  3. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    :sigh:

    Didn't Forbin just quote a long post you made about nobody debating you in good faith?
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  4. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    You have to go through two+ years of hormone therapy, and then several sporting groups are setting specific testing criteria.

    The question is is that always enough? A moderately competitive male swimmer who transitions and becomes a dominant female swimmer - and Lia won 4 championships at her last big meet - is questionable. She won 3 individual races, broke two state and pool records, and was the #1 points winner among all competitors at the championship.

    Lia never came close to those accolades before the transition. And the math doesn't lie - since transitioning she's lost several percentage points over her all time best speeds, but NOT as much difference as the best women vs best men's records. Depending on the event men are 8-20% faster.

    Understandably there are women who are upset by this - including some of her teammates.

    And no, this isn't the only time it's come up - there was a trans winner at women's track and field in 2019.

    So I think we still have a way to go to determine fairness.

    Of course, in some circles, because I'm pro-equality, that now equates to bigotry.

    I think considerably less of those people. But then, they think so highly of themselves.
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  5. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Y'all are free to set up your own record books and asterisk anyone you like.
  6. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    This is it, huh?
    The right only has the "attack helicopter" joke, and y'all are gonna just run it into the core of the Earth.
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  7. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    The IOC and NCAA already have changed the requirements - largely because of Lia. So if the 'y'all' is the governing bodies that oversee the records, no worries. They grandfathered Lia in, but the next Lia won't be able to. Under the international body guidelines she would have been excluded in the first place.
  8. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    But she's still able to compete, isn't she?
  9. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    For the rest of this year, yes. After that, it will depend on if she matches the guidelines. One being testosterone levels. She tested nearly double the new limit at her last meet.
  10. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    What’s wrong, you don’t your identity politics questioned?
  11. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    Spoiler alert: women's athletics are already treated less than men's athletics. There are universities that premise their entire existence on things like mens football, basketball, etc. That also translates into professional sports, where the disparities are perhaps even greater, depending on the sport.

    It's almost like monetized, competitive athletics is stupid to include as part of a primary and secondary education. We'd rather see promising young students get concussed to make the university a quick buck, rather than focusing on educating them.

    The whole "no trans-women in sports" panic is half transphobia and half a symptom of our sick obsession with organized sports.
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  12. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I’m just asking a question.
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  13. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Then anyone should be able to play on any team. What are you going to do, ask for psych profile?
  14. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    No you're not. You think you're making a clever point, but really you're just demonstrating why no one takes you seriously.
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  15. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Why because it challenges your ideology?
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  16. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    A lot of smart people believe in religion too. It's almost like there's something genetic driving it.
  17. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    :lol: No, because you don't learn from your mistakes, and continuously show everyone here why we should not take you seriously or engage with you. I've now already replied to you two more times than you deserve, against my better judgment.
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  18. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    So can you answer the question or not?
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  19. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    This has been gone over multiple times. Nobody is pretending to be a gender that they aren't just because they want to win something in high school sports.
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  20. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Are you?
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  21. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    So anyone should be able to play on any team. No questions asked.
  22. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Shut up, Tim Pool neural-clone.
    Get out of Federal Farmer's body, and plague some other board.
  23. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    :bailey:
  24. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Suits me. If I had the option in high school, I would have come out of the weight room.
  25. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Well, you're fucking senile and somebody should take care of you.
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  26. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Spoiler alert - it is literally the law that an equal amount of resources have to go into women's and men's sports at the collegiate level in the country where all this is taking place, America. When Title IX was passed in 1972, there were only 300,000 women in collegiate sports. And only 2% of the budget went to their activities. Now it is 50%, and well over 3 million women athletes compete. It's not only brought equality to sports, it's also seen the dominance of US women's teams across multiple sports in international competition.

    At the professional level, yes, there's a larger disparity. But still smaller than there once was, because just like in many sports in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, collegiate sports popularized professional ones. And women are taking advantage of that. Women have jobs playing soccer, basketball, softball, any number of sports, and many of those jobs earn well over what they'd make in other professions.

    Monetized? Sure. Competitive athletics? Hell no. There is a litany of advantages for athletes. And most of those 'concused' athletes wouldn't have the opportunity to get a higher education. Not all of them use it, to be sure, but there are a great many doctors, lawyers and professors that got through college because they had athletic scholarships. Hell, the chief Justice of the Minnesota Supreme Court is in the NFL Hall of Fame. A couple became successful entrepeneours, Congressmen, Senators, even a President.

    Sick obsession? Yeah, we get it, lots of people online were the last ones picked at recess. LOL.

    And I'm tired of the bullshit. I'm all for equality, and that means trans-people can marry, love, work, and live where ever they want.

    But equality ends when your rights diminish someone else's.

    And if someone with a handsize 30% larger gets an advantage in swimming because they had testosterone and higher amounts of HGH in their body for 20 years, maybe we should revisit that.

    As these sports associations are doing. And a lot of that doesn't come from Fox News - it comes from the women who are trying to compete, and a 3rd vs 4th place finish is the difference between getting their shot on an olympic team.

    But hey, people with sports dreams, they are just subhuman, right?
  27. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    See, declarative statements like this make me twitch. I guaran-fucking-tee you that someone, some time is going to do that. Just like the statements that no one will ever take advantage of trans rules for bathrooms. That's already happened. Or that trans people don't commit rape. Sure they do. They are people. People do fucked up stupid shit all the time.

    If you can think of a way a person can cheat in sports it's probably already happened, including people lying about their race and age to get competitive advantages in kid's sports.

    So that's not the question. The question is it a big enough problem to limit anyone about it right now. I certainly think the answer to that is no, but that doesn't mean that answer will always be no.
  28. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Then let's shoot Michael Jordan and Michael Phelps in the head for being genetic mutants who diminish normal humans.
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  29. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Then we sure as shit should get rid of women's athletics and tell them to all get back in the kitchen, if what men do diminishes them.

    Hell, we should get rid of age bands for kids. Clearly Tayvon at age 9 can't compete with anyone at age 15. Why should we even have them try?

    Or we can acknowledge that the great ones in their sports played on an even playing field. And almost all of them got to where they were through a life time of incredible work ethic.
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  30. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    I don't mean to imply that what we decide today will always be the solution. But I also don't think making laws keeping people from playing sports is the right way.

    Maybe that's the best thing I can come up with right now, but it's still really messy because sports and sports leagues in public schools in the US are (often almost always?) tied to the school system and, as such, part of the government. If you're a trans kid who wants to run track and your state laws say "no way," there's no other league to go to.
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