So, Yeah, About the Whole Republican Projection Thing

You might want to get out of your basement sometime. Yes, those people exist, and in increasing numbers.

Yeah, I remember when they stormed the capitol when Hillary lost.
Oh, wait....

Then that speaks to your understanding, not the reality of the situation.

This is not state ordered harvesting of organs. Ones illegal, the other isn't.

They have self-governance, and the right to immigrate off the reservations whenever they want.

While true, tell me where the US is now running a proxy government against the populations wishes. It is absolutely happening in Tibet and Hong Kong right now.

Yes, the wars after 9/11 were terrible and often misguided, but it's also true we brought democracy to those countries. The Afghani's decided they didn't want democracy and their worst elements have taken over and their people are the worse for it. The Iraqis continue to have a functioning democracy even when telling the US to largely withdraw.

There were several thousand protests that gripped the nation in 2020, including every major city in the US. Yes, the right to protest remains, even if there are occasional exceptions due to bad laws. The Uighurs aren't protesting - they as an ethnicity are under lock and key.

Sure, the failure of the war on drugs. I'm absolutely for reform there. There is a trend toward that in many states, especially in changing the criminality of relatively benign drugs such as marijuana.

We can support reform here without being thrown in jail.

And we can talk about it openly without censorship and the threat of official sanction.

One of them did try to assassinate multiple members of Congress at a baseball game.

But regardless, what I'm talking about is social cohesion of the nation. There were separatist movements in many areas of the US, and yes, some of them come from the left.

Buzz-phrase that could mean anything from being nice to your neighbors, to full-tilt brainwash cult.
MAGA rallies had plenty of "social cohesion".
I'll pass on going to one though.

China has also taken the most draconian measures to contain Covid and it hasn't worked. The whole city of Shanghai is under lock-down right now.

The context is clear, and expressly already stated - that the USA as a whole is worth saving. Because if we balkanize there will be a whole lot more death and violence than there used to be, and large swathes of the country will end up in outright totalitarianism.

Agreed.

Maybe we will, maybe we won't, but I'm not gonna lose sleep over it like a 50's suburb dad over nukes.
And if we do, it won't be because I didn't go to the barn dance and the baked bean supper.

that kinda doesn't jibe with why you told me it was "my understanding of the situation"... large swaths of the country are already pretty close to it.


speaking of reality not meeting interpretations...

I don't even know where to start with how ignorant of the issues this sounds? Let's start with the death by cop rate for First Nations being double what it is for Blacks, and I'll trust your ability to look into the misperception of meaningful autonomy for them.

Sure, this didn't even take that long to find:

http://www.wordforge.net/index.php?threads/duty-this-is-the-way.119389/#post-3208732

Capitalism hasn't totally blown it. In actual fact its done everything from lifting more people out of poverty than ever, increased life expectancy, overall health, drive innovation, improved overall quality of life, made items more affordable than ever and increased daily caloric intake all over the planet. What you said there has no basis in reality

Thanks for listening to my Ten Talk

I'm not anti-capitalism, I'm anti-broken capitalism.
They ain't calling the shit we're in "late stage..." for nothing.

When have you ever shown yours?

All the fuckin' time.
You just over it.
That's your problem, not mine.

Let's just ask rimjob.

has it though? lifted more people out of poverty?

I mean, the economic inequity numbers of today are even more discouraging than the 1860s. The precursor to modern capitalism brought with it genocidal campaigns against indigenous peoples that exist to today in much of the world. Nothing for health or innovation has been accomplished without heavily regulating and directing resources to sponsor them. What's more affordable through capitalism in the last 20 years? certainly not food or housing...

I think it's a mistake to conflate free commerce with "free market" capitalism.

Like Ken Burns?
I could kinda get behind that.

Beat me to it. Ken Burns has demonstrated time and time again that he can acknowledge our flaws while celebrating our achievements and our melting pot society.

If it wasn't for the reality I know what a History degree is worth and the whitewashed bullshit taught in american college I would say he is lying. All an american bachelor degree means is you paid your fucking tuition. Maybe you had to show up to a class or two and pass a test. It is not like a history major is moving onto an occupation where you needed the education anyway. When was the last time someone needed some dude with a bachelors in history? Can you even think of a job aside from high school teacher than needs that low of a degree in history? I have a cosmo degree that is more important to society than a bachelors in history. People actually need haircuts and there is some safety involved.

It must be coke-thirty @Tererun is blowing up the board.

Puhlease. This is not blowing up anything. Maybe this is why you had to get a bullshit degree in history. Perhaps you were too much of a lazy dipshit to get a real degree in something useful. Seriously, history trivia about universes is something geeks do on their off time. Learning about star trek, gaming universes, and the elven language is something intelligent people do while they get a degree in a useful science.

Maybe if you stopped watching Joe Rogan podcasts you might have time to read something or have a response that isn't someone else's video kiddo.

No. Pro capitalists like to say shit like this, but they have nothing to compare it to, so ... it's like an internet argument and one declares himself the winner without any evidence at all.

I'm not surprised Garak would fall for such incredibly misleading propaganda and outright bullshit.

as opposed to whiskey o'clock wherein you go driving around town?

yeah... kinda makes me wonder what they think was driving innovation for the other several thousand years of civilization, not to mention trade.

I think they're confusing a "deal" -which is an exchange benefitting the parties involved-and extortion...

Though I do not do as much coke as all that, I do find it amusing a fucking alcoholic would be trying to insinuate coke is a bad drug. I get coke is not a healthy thing, but I do not know a drug as sloppy and fucking stupid as alcohol. I can do coke and then do physical and mental tasks better than sober. The problems with coke are not impairment of abilities. Alcohol is a fucking stupid drug, and I know my fucking drugs.

Since the boy decided to bring this shit up in the red room I am going to go for it.

I cannot wrap my head around the weakness of alcoholics, especially if they have done other drugs. Drunk is a shit high. It is the gutter of highs in my opinion. Pot is a fucking fun drug, but sloppy. Psychadellics and dissasociatives give visions and thoughts that are from a truly altered perception. Stimulants like amphetamines and cocaine wake you up and make you feel good. Pain killers take away pain and give you a sort of sloppy imaginary sensation. alcohol is fucking shit. It just fucks you up. It kicks your ass and really does not bring any sort of introspection or creativity. It is a hammer to the face.

What the fuck is so good about it that you can't find something better? Don't get me wrong, I have had some tasty beverages with alcohol in them. I have been fucking wasted. I will probably get wasted again. Normally when I drink I would rather be doing something else and the alcohol high is just a shit substitute for something better.

The only really powerful thing alcohol seems to do is to destroy self perception. When I look into the psychology of alcoholism it is normally self loathing that drives a person to drink. They want to destroy their image of themselves so they do not have to think about that wretched shit. I have addiction problems, but I do like who I am. I do not need to destroy or distract from that image with some drug, which is probably why I do not fool around with alcohol all that much.

I think FF should look more into why he avoids looking into himself and maybe address some of those nasty evil thoughts rather than doing everything he can to distract himself from himself by drinking and by finding fault in others.

If anything, capitalism has driven more people into poverty as capitalism has moved into areas in which people would normally grow their own food and make their own clothes and otherwise be fruitful and multiplying, and said "I own this now, so you have to pay me to use it".

The thing about unrestricted capitalism is that it returns a predatory culling of the human population. I recognize that humans seem to lose the urge to reproduce as they enter into a more urban and industrialized environment so that culling is not needed, but in areas where rural and less evolved thinking exist capitalism is keeping the population down through incentivizing cruel and destructive practices.

I am neither condoning or saying those actions are moral.

I wouldn't say "jumped". Those transitions happened at times when agriculture didn't produce the necessary results - whether due to climate issues or ... family member or farm worker died or ... any number of outside factors that have nothing to do with industry "being available". In fact, Henry Ford had to continually raise the wages he paid to get people to continue working after their immediate farming circumstances were resolved.

Still, that is not an argument to say capitalism raised people out of poverty because poverty as we know it didn't exist prior to capitalism.