We're all on the same page about Paladin, right?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by 14thDoctor, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    No, we're talking about racist in the dictionary parlance where saying that black people are biologically less inclined to the behaviours that lead to success is racist.
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  2. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Well, that's not me. Paladin can answer for himself.
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  3. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    I have never heard "A shirt" in my life. Apparently it refers to being an "athletic" shirt...
    I do recall first hearing the term "wife beater" being applied to them in the 90s, and google image shirt lands results for them for everywhere from Stanfields to Lululululemon... apparently the term goes back to the 40s, according to wiki, and relates to a domestic violence incident bad enough to have been newsworthy in that era..

    Jenee should leave the imaginary world creation stuff to UA.
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  4. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    He has and instead of saying, "Well, that's not what I meant" or "I've changed my mind and am going to abandon ship on the argument that black people are biologically less inclined to behaviors that lead to success" he's doubled down.

    One could at least plausibly argue that some aspects of black culture support behaviors that prevent success AND not be racist. But it's pretty hard to argue biological determinism and not be either racist, ignorant, a troll or all of the above.
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  5. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I think I see the issue, did you interpret the bolded:

    as literally referring to you? In context it seems to be just explaining how the clothing is irrelevant.
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  6. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    He's a solipsistic narcissist, you actually have to ask?
    :diacanu:
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  7. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Yet using the term continues to normalize wife beating.
  8. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Imaginary world? WTF are you talking about?

    The reason that type of shirt is called a “wife beater” is due to the movie “Streetcar Named Desire” and the main character only wore that shirt the entire play and eventual movie. Stanley was his name. And he beat his wife, Stella.

    The term is offensive and attempts to normalize domestic violence.
  9. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    You’re as bad as he is. And this post now, in my mind, puts you in the same company as … those two women who show up on Fox - Diamond and … something.
  10. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    In a reply to me. But if I misinterpreted, so be it. That's my mistake.
  11. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Only if you think anyone goes into a shop and asks for them by that name.

    If we refer to white robes and a hood as "KlanKostume", is that normalizing lynchings?

    No, because "Klan" implies it's bad.

    The same way "wife beating" implies something wrong.

    I would gladly have used "vest" but then we'd have had a whole back and forth on THAT instead of giving you an opportunity to leap to UA's defence, which I figure is a kindness since HE gives you few enough of those.
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  12. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    That you feel it necessary to malign UA as a defense of yourself is akin to an 8 year old pointing at another child’s shortcomings so no one looks at yours. It’s never worked for me. So, … get another defense - if you feel you need one.
  13. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    What makes me as bad as Paladin is? I have never said or suggested that black people (or any people) are biologically predispositioned for failure.

    To clarify:

    I obviously do not believe that black people are culturally predispositioned for failure either.

    I obviously would question anybody who does believe that.

    But I do think it's at least possible for someone to believe that and not be a racist.

    It is not possible to truly think that failure is in black people's genes like sickle cell and to not be a racist.
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  14. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    the imaginary world where using the most common term for something implies anything about an individual.

    and the news reference predates the play, let alone the movie, so...


    that said, you do make a very valid point about normalization and institutionalized misogyny. I never heard the term until the 90s and before then knew them as tank tops...
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  15. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    na... it's that we're pretty sure after nearly 20 years that he's a shitty human being most of us wouldn't want to associate with.

    there's a guy in my community that spouts similar social darwinistic nonsense and poor argumentation in the same way. He can clear the corner drinking clique just by showing up and talking about anything other than sports or weather.
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  16. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    What? :huh:
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  17. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Paladin posited that black people were biologically inferior. That you defend him for making the statement is what I questioned. Which is why I likened you to Diamond and …. the other one, not Paladin.
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  18. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

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    I am in no way defending Paladin. I am calling him either a racist, ignorant or a troll for continuing to stick to the line that blacks are biologically predisposed for failure. That is the opposite of defending him.

    (The other one is Silk).
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  19. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    I’ve never said you couldn’t or shouldn’t malign anyone you want. I was speaking specifically of Matt’s attempt to throw off critique by saying “look at UA”.

    And now you’re doing the same thing.
  20. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Similar to how calling blue jeans pants with a blue jeans shirt or jacket a ‘Canadian Tuxedo’ in no way excuses or normalizes Canadians existing.

    1C6B612F-027B-4349-91F9-19DEE91A92D7.jpeg
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  21. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    If I misread your post, then I retract the comparison. But, honestly, you have made some questionable posts. No, I’m not going to go find them and post a link. Every one who has read them knows it.
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  22. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    this is the Canadian Tux somewhat more complete
    jacket and vest are mandatory

    [​IMG]
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  23. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    Chances are you are misreading those other posts of his too.
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  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Vest under the jacket...that's what I've been missing...
    :math::think:
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  25. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    No, he didn't.

    I said that cultural and biological factors may play some role in outcome disparity. Of the two, I'm much more heavily inclined to the former than the latter. In neither case, do I maintain blacks--or any group--are inferior.
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  26. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    yup... to go over the jacket, the jacket should be of another material or at least another colour of denim. Traditionally it's been a lumber jacket, but hoodies are common.
  27. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Color it up all you want. “Biological factors May play some role in outcome disparity” is using a lot of words to say what you’ve been accused of saying.
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  28. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Again, I don't claim anyone is inferior. :shrug:
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  29. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    for me it's the "biological factors may play some role in outcome disparity". "cultural" to a lesser extent when we consider a culture is shaped by the other "cultures" around it... although there's a pretty big nit to pick in your implying any racial cultural monolith. Or are you suggesting that it's a white cultural trait to marginalize other races thus forming them into simple stereotypes?

    Maybe that's it? You're presenting your perception of blacks as existing as a common culture that hasn't bootstrapped itself enough due to limited potential stemming from... actually, that's where i get lost. Is the "culture" is inferior and thus unable to succeed in the exception that is America?
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  30. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    1. I don't think all blacks are of the same culture, any more than all whites or all Asians are.
    2. However, everyone exists in a culture, and many cultures have racial correlations.
    3. For a group to underperform vis-a-vis other groups, it is not required that all members of it underperform, only that a significant portion of it does. Averages are not individuals.
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