Should Pelosi visit Taiwan?

Pelosi set to visit Taiwan despite China warnings (Reuters)

China won't be happy and could respond militarily.

On the other hand, backing down now would be a diplomatic win for them.

Who's going to blink?

Pelosi should go, fuck China.

Yes.

I could be entirely wrong, but somehow I doubt china is going to go do some military shit over shitty woman visiting taiwan. Especially after seeing all the economic damage that could be done against them if they were to get worldwide penalties for that action. The us has the weakest SOB ever and he might slurp the shit out of their ass like they were moscow mitch, so why not try to make the US back down? There is just a lot of damage that can be done to them over a visit by a stupid twat.

Then again, maybe I am wrong and this is another dictator in a huge bubble that would destroy his country's economy so he could make his dick seem bigger. Then again what does military action mean? Maybe that means you sail some ships into places others do not want your ships, or play some wargames? There are plenty of ways to puff up your military actions without actually firing on someone else. You could do something like sending a worthless bitch from your country to some contested area like the US is doing.

Of course, my poorly thought out fantasy is they shoot the bitch in her ice cream pooper and rid us of her corruption and anti-abortion corporate love.

Yes. The CHIPS Act signals doubt that we'll defend Taiwan if China invades, a Pelosi visit signals determination to do so, net maintaining the strategic ambiguity on the topic we've fostered for decades.

Absolutely. China doesn’t decide where foreign leaders can and can’t go

They look completely infantile here, threatening military action over a politician visiting a country. They know they aren’t going to do start a conflict over something so minor

She just landed.

Our delegation’s visit to Taiwan honors America’s unwavering commitment to supporting Taiwan’s vibrant Democracy.

Our discussions with Taiwan leadership reaffirm our support for our partner & promote our shared interests, including advancing a free & open Indo-Pacific region.

America’s solidarity with the 23 million people of Taiwan is more important today than ever, as the world faces a choice between autocracy and democracy.

Our visit is one of several Congressional delegations to Taiwan – and it in no way contradicts longstanding United States policy, guided by the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979, U.S.-China Joint Communiques and the Six Assurances.

The United States continues to oppose unilateral efforts to change the status quo. Read my full statement on our Congressional delegation’s visit to Taiwan here:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/8222-2

China doesn't have to drop a bomb, only to not send a ship. The US is in way over its head here, especially with what it's also doing around the world, while at home people are going hungry, becoming homeless, and getting sick while a pandemic rages. The empire deludes itself.

Only Pelosi could go to Chinese Taipei.

So Pelosi crashed Weibo. Some pages are slow to load. Some failed to load. Really interesting to read many anti-war comments. Many Chinese don’t want war. War won’t be popular.
https://twitter.com/liyuan6/status/1554494972690579457?s=21&t=9qxmQR--9UiMbSVHezsbBw

War won't be popular because with single child policy means that a family loses not only an only child/grandchild for parents and grandparents, but also their family's lineage, which in Chinese culture, is extremely important.
https://twitter.com/shanghaiwuerch/status/1554527914275643392?s=21&t=9qxmQR--9UiMbSVHezsbBw

Taipei 101 tower

Wordforge's resident CCP mole

With all due respect much of this is also happening in China. They're on the verge of a financial crisis and have record youth unemployment

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ce-350-billion-in-losses-from-property-crisis

CPC, thank you very much.

It goes a lot deeper than that, and China is in a far better position to handle what's coming than the US would. A lot of what China's experiencing right now is the same thing we're all experiencing right now (https://tradingeconomics.com/china/gdp-growth-annual), but there are some key differences: China is the world's largest manufacturing base. If China decided to pull back on supplying the US, it would still have access to its growing partnerships in Russia, India, and many of the countries in Africa currently at the receiving end of tens of thousands of bus stations, railroad tracks, hospitals, and other infrastructure that China has been engaging in building all across the continent. To be frank, there is a loggerhead of issues between NATO and BRICS, and since the US powers much of NATO's agenda, and funds its projects, that's a bad sign. The US certainly can engage militarily, but billions of dollars in bombs abroad are no match for empty supermarket shelves at home.

I don't want the people of the US to suffer. Millions of people deserve better than that, but it's a dangerous game the US is playing. It would be like if the Chairman of the People's Military arrived in Puerto Rico, and promised them that if the US tried to maintain its sovereignty over them, China would fund its defense against that aggressor, and would support their demands for independence. We're making political shit with a country we rely on for a large percentage of our imports, from food to furniture, and Taiwan primarily manufactures computer chips. Tell the average US voter that they can't get the new iPhone because Nancy Pelosi decided to make a press run for a "historic" visit in Taiwan, can't have specific foods because much of that supply comes from China, can't buy a new washer or dryer because the few US manufacturers can't keep up with the demand that China once handled, and see what happens at the polls. It is utterly beyond absurd what she's doing, and Biden should have put an end to it the moment she brought it up.

I must have missed something. It it now Puerto Rico's official line that it's the "legitimate" United States of America, and the mainland USA is an illegal usurper?

Or is this a silly apples to horse kidneys comparison?

The CCP has never administered Taiwan, and Puerto Rico actually wants to be part of the US (in 2020 a majority of voters favored statehood). So this is a silly analogy.

seems to be backwards, or a triple negative, or something....

Taiwan is independent of China, and protected by the US
Puerto Rico is an offshore territory that last time I checked, was desiring statehood?

Taiwan is not independent of China, it falls under the One China policy (which the US agreed to until recently, as does the UN even still). Even many Taiwanese will tell you this, that Taiwan is a part of China, it's just some will say that Taiwan is the true seat of China, while Beijing is an impostor. Depends upon who you talk to, though. As for Puerto Rico, my point is that the US has its own little fiefdoms, like Puerto Rico, and even the state of Hawai'i, who has its own independence movement. Puerto Rico has its own large separatist movements who want independence. Just because the government says they want to join doesn't mean the people want to join.

The US is purposely getting between a mother bear and her cub having an argument. That's what I'm saying, and that the US wouldn't appreciate it if the shoe were on the other foot. We're meddling. When we meddle bad shit happens, see Middle East.

Edit to add: I'm not really arguing any position in favor of China. I mean, I support a lot of what China does, but that doesn't mean they're some grand communist utopia, they're not. I'm just saying the US is gearing its ass up for an economic entanglement that may just strangle it, and people shouldn't be so willing to accept what Pelosi is doing as anything other than unnecessary provocation. You can feel differently, but that's all I'm saying.

so if the true seat of gov't is that descended from Chang Kai-shek's exiled one, the CCP isn't the mama bear, let alone Taiwan's real mom.

"One China" policy strikes me as patting the PRC on the head and saying "sure, she's your girlfriend"... notably it also doesn't concede Taiwanese sovereignty any more than it confirms it.

I know a few Taiwanese expats. They tend to have feelings similar to the Tibetans about their region's place regarding China. Notably either Taiwanese side's (KMT or DPP) position rests on the illegitimacy of the PRC gov't.

Ergo, Pelosi's visit doesn't violate "one china" as she is meeting with the true government of China...

Yes.

I disagree.

The worry with China is that they might be looking at the current trajectory and figuring this is the best time to attack.

1) While the US pulled out of TPP Abe, recognizing the danger of Xi to the region/rule based world order resuscitated it. The CPTPP is basically the TPP minus the US and the US priorities not shared by others (again, great job Trump! ).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compr...ent_for_Trans-Pacific_Partnership?wprov=sfti1

As it goes further and further into effect it will further and further isolate China both economically and politically.

2) It started with COVID shortages, continued into the supply chain inflation and now with what’s going on in Russia there has been a turning point in the West’s view of globalization. While there likely won’t a return to mercantilism the idea that all free trade is good trade is dead. Look for countries to focus on both domestic and allied supply chains. See 1).

3) The response to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine scared the shit out of the ChiComs. They didn’t see the West/Rules Based Nations being so unified. With the talk of a Pacific NATO (yes, yes, I know) China has to be worried about that kind of solidarity being built on its doorstep.

4) Japan and S Korea in particular but other S China Sea nations are modernizing and expanding their militaries and particularly their power projection and area access denial assets. See S. Korea’s Dokdo and Japan’s Izumo class carriers (their first since WWII).

5) There is a lot of learning going on from Ukraine. Taiwan is purchasing all sorts of missiles and rockets being used very effectively by the Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian military is a completely different force than the one Russia ran over in 2014. China worries how formidable Taiwan’s military could become given that kind of time to become familiar with the new weapons and tactics.

6) The West/Rules Based Nations are focused on Ukraine. Can they defend Taiwan at the same time?

7) Like Russia China’s demographics point to a weaker future not stronger.

8) After Deng’s reforms there is no state ideology. The three legged stool of ChiCom legitimacy is Security (let us rule over you otherwise there will be civil war), Economics (let us rule over you and we will pull you out of poverty and into wealth) and Nationalism (let us rule over you so we can Make China Great Again).

Economics aren’t looking great right now. Growth is slower than projected and looking at 1), 2) and 7) might not ever return to the rate needed to keep the people happy. The longer this goes on the more dangerous things are for the regime.


In autocracies, especially ones with such totalitarian control over information, regimes look bullet proof until the moment they aren’t.

The wind up:
https://www.businessinsider.com/nancy-pelosi-stock-trades-paul-pelosi-nvidia-visa-apple-2022-7?amp

And the pitch:




[ inhales deeply ]
[ exhales ]

Freedom.

Good luck on this quarter's "we have to defend <insert country here> in order to protect Democracy" business transaction.

TSMC is a company I didn’t know anything about until a couple weeks ago. Which is crazy as it is the most valuable corporation in Asia and the 11th most in the world.

Fareed Zakaria had their chairman Mark Liu on last week’s GPS for a rare extended interview (two segments).

https://www.cnn.com/audio/podcasts/fareed-zakaria-gps

Worth a listen for those interested in learning about the world’s largest semiconductor manufacturer.

Me neither. And it signals a great failure of Western economic policy that we let one of the world's most important industries concentrate on one vulnerable island.

We should look into producing some here in the US.

I think you mean the Pacific Ocean Treaty Alliance & Trust Organization, or POTATO.

It'll be run by a friggin' Lalafell, I'm sure.

South Pacific Unified Defense.