Student Debt Cancellation

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by RickDeckard, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Personal responsibility be damned.
  2. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I have a shit ton in federal student loans, but I will not get a dime from this. And yet I still support this.

    Likewise, I don't get a dime from food stamps, but I still support the program.

    If someone opposes this because they aren't directly benefiting, well, that's called being an asshole.
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  3. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    Based on your meltdown in this thread, it sounds like you spent all or most of your trust fund on a history degree, and are now upset that you could have taken out student loans instead and kept all of the money your parents gave you so you wouldn't be stuck working as a sandwich artist with a worthless degree.

    Did I miss anything?
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  4. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    It comes down to exploitation. In what way does exploitation benefit the working class? Keep in mind that it's the working class that creates so many of the goods and services that you use every day, so what benefit is there, for society as a whole, to increase their debt, make it nearly impossible for them to pay those debts, and force them to make payments until they're nearly reached retirement age? Haven't you heard borrowers talking about getting a $40,000 loan, paying $50,000 of it, and still owing $30,000? At what point do you not realize that people are being exploited at a young age to take on debt they can't truly fathom because they know that if they want a job with an appreciable salary (in theory), they have to have some kind of degree?

    So what does it benefit society as a whole to force people into a form of indentured servitude? You talk about personal responsibility, but that has nothing to do with student debt. Look up usury and see what's really happening.
  5. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Yep, you missed a lot. If you decide to not be a dick to me, I’ll tell you exactly what you missed. I suspect that you won’t believe me even if I do.
  6. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    You’re coming into this with a lot of assumptions.
  7. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    No.

    Usury: https://www.nclc.org/issues/high-cost-small-loans/usury.html
    Student Loan Interest Rates: https://www.bankrate.com/loans/student-loans/current-interest-rates/

    Articles for you:
    https://www.gobankingrates.com/loan...s-owe-more-now-than-when-they-started-paying/
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/adammi...e-push-cancellation-as-a-fix/?sh=56135faf691d
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/05/for...s-doubling-tripling-and-even-quadrupling.html

    Who Currently Owes The Most In Student Loans:
    https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-f...-most-in-student-loans-new-data-from-the-fed/
    https://www.brookings.edu/policy202...nt-debt-and-whod-benefit-if-it-were-forgiven/
    https://www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-by-race-5193137

    Saying it's about personal responsibility wholly excuses the usurious system (and the banks that profit heavily from it) that exploits people of all ages, and hits the middle income and lower groups hardest.
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  8. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I’ll check it out since you included Forbes.
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  9. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    an element of this is that FedGov has to stop seeing this as a revenue stream and start seeing it as a public good, like USPS.

    Congress - assuming they come out of November with the votes - needs to overhaul the whole thing, wiping out all accumulated interest that exceeds the original loan amount (at least, preferably all of it) resetting all existing loans to something like one point below prime, jacking up Pells (as Biden proposed) and tackling the cost escalation of all public universities in all aspects (for example, put down the textbook scam)

    All well beyond what any president can do on their own.
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  10. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    [​IMG]
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  11. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Not here to defend communism, but all the evils of the various communist governments of history - those were done by AUTHORITARIANISM or if you prefer, totalitarianism.

    Such evils can be done under the banner of communism, or fascism, or capitalism, or whatever - if there's a totalitarian government with no scruples.


    (for example, no one ever brings into these conversations how many humans have suffered and died in the last, say, 700 years, in the name of making profit)
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  12. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    At the risk of making certain brains explode from CRT Panic Syndrome - this like virtually every other self-defeating psychosis that is unique to the US is derived from having built racism into the foundation of the project.

    What Heather McGee called the Drained Pool Syndrome.
    (anyone who doesn't know what that is should do some digging, she basically nailed our whole sick system in one book, and she can give you the gist in an hour long pod. She did a fantastic one with Ezra Klein when it first came out)

    Basically: White folks have ALWAYS been willing to settle for less for themselves if it means they can be sure black folks don't ever get any better off. We could all live in an unrecognizably better country if nothing had ever been chosen by politicians with this consideration in mind.
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  13. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    This doesn't affect non-government loans so your analogy makes no sense.
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  14. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Don’t wait for the translation, answer the question.
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  15. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    You mean like when someone declares bankruptcy? Happens every day in the US.
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  16. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  17. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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    ^ Where Kulinski errs in the "free college vs free high school" argument is that college isn't necessary. We should offer relief to existing student debtors, but we should also push more young people into trade vocational school and out of expensive liberal arts colleges, not least because they will see far better salary outcomes with the former.
  18. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    You mean the government should pick winners and losers? :chris:
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  19. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    If they'll see better salary outcomes from going to trade school, the market will eventually sort that out.

    Thing is, where are the rich parents sending their kids? That's right, to college. So keeping college expensive on the grounds that we should really be pushing people into the trades really just boils down to "college for me, trade school for thee."
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  20. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    "Expensive liberal arts colleges" shouldn't even be a thing in the first place. They're huge fuckin' scams both in pricing and in the number of graduates they dump into already oversaturated fields, and the government shouldn't be propping them up by letting naive kids sign up for massive loans for a product with such a shitty return on investment. :async:
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  21. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    It sounds like the way the UK (IIRC...I expect anyone who knows differently to speak up) used to sort out the blue collar workers from the white collar types: you had comprehensive exam at some point that would determine whether you would go to trade school or university. Great way of enforcing class separation if you think about it. On the surface it looks equitable and based on merit, but the rich will always have advantages in how well they can prep and if all else fails, the old boy network.
    :spock:
  22. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Also, while plenty of skilled trades jobs do lead to making a solid living, college is one of the biggest contributors to economic mobility.

    The rich want to be able to hire your kids. What they don't want is for your kids to compete with their kids for the really good jobs. Or start the companies that disrupt their industry. And so on.
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  23. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

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    See, college is necessary more and more each year. Jobs that required a high school diploma now require a college degree. Why? An owner of a company once said it's to show the prospective employee is hard worker. College = hard work? I guess so. But now your employee is $50,000 in the hole and is now starting off his career unable to buy a car or house while getting paid 1980s wages.
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  24. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    The market IS sorting that out.

    But, that isn’t/shouldn’t be the deciding factor. Most office jobs are being outsourced. Any job that is task driven and can be done electronically is being sent overseas. Office jobs will soon be going the way of manufacturing. If you want your children to be able to eek out a living, teach them a career that can’t be outsourced - plumbing, electrician, mechanic, heck, even retail and fast food.

    That college degree will soon be worthless.
  25. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Eke.

    :brood:
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  26. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    If an alien lands, farts in your face, and you turn into a unicorn you're fine with that?

    While we're being demanded to answer questions that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.
  27. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    If the moon were made of cheese, would you eat it?
  28. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    @Bailey is it true that Australia has a means tested system for student loans?
  29. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Yes. The remaining balance increases yearly based on the CPI, and repayments are a flat percentage of your income:

    Screenshot_20220901-133912_Chrome.jpg
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  30. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    That I can get behind.