US Evangelicals dropping Loser Christianity and doubling down on Winner Fascism.

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, Sep 20, 2022.

  1. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Wow. 65% of American evangelicals deny original sin, and 43% deny Jesus’ divinity. So, literal heretics! But 90%+ are resolute against extramarital sex and abortion.

    @Kkdumez’s argument that evangelicalism is a culture rather than an set of beliefs has never looked stronger.

    https://twitter.com/jacobhuneycutt_/status/1571920458043244544?s=46&t=I2OES0Xsp840RwYV-0DU5w

    And data:

    https://thestateoftheology.com/?utm_medium=instagram&utm_source=linktree&utm_campaign=2022 results now available: the state of theology
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  2. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    I could have told you this back in the 80s when I lived in Texas.
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  3. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    In what sense are these people being defined as Evangelicals? Is it a self-identification or the fact that they go to such a church? It's not immediately clear from the links.
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  4. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Both
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  5. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    Kinda mind blowing how much good punk music has come out of places like Texas and Florida...


    The policeman is in the Ku Klux Klan

    Careful if your name is Schwartz or Chan

    Crosses burn bright every night

    You can kiss goodbye your Civil Rights

    Migrants still cower for fifty cents an hour

    The same ol’ slave masters are still in power

    Governor’s got the gall to build a Berlin Wall

    Keeping Meskins out is for the good of us all

    You’re not really welcome if you’re not lily white

    All them Baptists swear they’ve seen the light

    Killed all the Indians to steal their land

    And sure enough we went and moved our band
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  6. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Huh. I didn't listen to too much punk music back then, but .. yea. That's exactly true. I remember "joking" to friends at the time "Everyone in Texas goes to church on Sunday, and everyone in Texas is a christian on Sunday". I put "joking" in quotes because .. not to make any enemies at the time. But, it was definitely the norm. Because every other day of the week, they were all drinking, taking advantage, lying, cheating, ... basically, ever foul thing a human could do, was the norm every day of the week in Texas - except sunday when everyone was in church.
  7. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I mean, we always knew this is what they were, they're just finally reaching the Kai Winn phase of stopping being hypocrites about it.
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  8. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    heh, punk was my world back then. I'm even pictured in a couple of books of the toronto scene and the micro cultures within it.

    sounds like when I lived in the eastern ass of this province... or in Alberta.

    A lot of friggers amongst the riggers, if ya catch my drift.
  9. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    catch the drift? Sure. Understand the nouns? no.

    Don't worry, I do know how to use google. No need for everyone to jump on that.
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  10. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    double entendre about oil riggers and this old favourite :D


    (found the animated version :D)
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  11. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    ok. nope. not getting it.

    upload_2022-9-20_12-13-36.png
    :rolleyes: that clears things up.
  12. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Friggers, not figgers.

    Frigging is slang for sex (but usually masturbation) in the UK.
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  13. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    yeah, some of the oil rigging populatio were simply jack offs, but at the far end of the word "friggers" you'd also find those who'd have been happy in the royal navy era of rum, sodomy, and the lash...(and no gurlz!!!)

    Texas is Texas, no matter the latitude...
  14. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Figures :dayton:




    :sigh: the one time a deliberate pun won't necessarily work :(

    Figgers.
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  15. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Yep. What we're seeing now has existed in fundamentalist churches for decades, it's just coming to the surface. Trump's white supremacist viewpoints just made it a more comfortable outing.
    One of the (many) reasons I left the church, and the faith, was because I just couldn't hate the people my peers wanted me to hate. I picked up the softer side of my faith from my mom, who couldn't hate anybody on command, either. While I'm no longer a Christian, I still love what Jesus represents, and I'd love to see that kind of Christianity return, where money changers were thrown from the temple, and the idea of loving your neighbor wasn't just a pithy saying but something you actively did to honor god rather than inflate one's own ego, where super rich assholes were ashamed to flaunt their wealth in the presence of their brethren.

    All these people want is power. They'd arrest Jesus on sight, maybe even kill him in "self-defense."
    They'd judge and jail the prostitute.
    They'd mock and assault the blind man.
    They'd condemn Jesus for being too hard on the young rich man and tell him his money just made him a more godly person.

    The modern Christian church is very much anti-Christian.

    Oh! I can recommend a great book, I think I've recommended it before. It's a fiction story that came out back in the late 1990s, and was written by Tony Hendra. It's called "The Messiah of Morris Avenue," and it kind of predicts a Trump like figure dominating the landscape at a time when Jesus decides to return, in a fashion.
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  16. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Fredrick Douglass called that out 200 years ago.
    :yes:
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  17. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    If I relate to any specific religion, its probably Celtic Reconstructionism - a form of paganism. And, in following that, one thing I learned was the reason Celts in Ireland and England (before Roman Catholicism and subsequent changes to such) was the reason the pagans in those area so easily accepted Christianity was because the teachings of Jesus (not Christianity) so closely related to what those pagans believed. Jesus taught of acceptance of others - for no other reason other than that we are all human - and that's what those pagans believed and that is what Celtic Reconstructionism believes.
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  18. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Yep. As a pagan myself, I had no issue reconciling my appreciation for Jesus within my own spirituality. It was actually easier, honestly, because I didn't hold on to the awful social and economical structure built around Jesus by the church itself, and all the Euro-centric and then Ameri-centric white supremacy baked within over the past 2,000 years.
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  19. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    I'm not surprised by Evangelicals ignoring everything Jesus taught -- that's been their jam for a long time -- but I am surprised that 43% say they don't believe he was divine.

    Are they unsure what the word means, or something?
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  20. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I mean, the closest to Jesus a real human has gotten was Mister Rogers, and Sean Hannity basically called him a pussy that pussified children, so....there you go.
    :shrug:
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  21. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Did he really though? Are you making that up?
  22. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    The Bible I had as a kid had all the quotes attributed to Jesus in red font. Obviously not a direct quote, but essentially, yes. I now know most of those quotes were stolen from Buddhist and Hindu teachings, but that’s not the issue here. Also, I saw one documentary about the Dead Sea scrolls and if those can be taken literally, some believe Jesus was probably schizophrenic.

    But, essentially, yes, that’s the gist of the teachings of Jesus Christ.
  23. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I'm not sure which quotes you could possibly be referring to. "Acceptance" - whatever that means - in Christianity has always been highly conditional (variously dependent on works or on faith) and the various iterations of Jesus to be found in the New Testament reflect that.
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  24. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    The bible I was given as a child had passages attributed to Jesus Christ and were printed in red font. Those are the "quotes" to which I am referring.
    And, yes, much of Christianity is dependent on denomination and even changes amongst the "gospels".

    However, it's been my understanding, throughout my lifetime and every different church I've attended, that Jesus preached about 'love thy neighbor' and all that crap. Whether or not people follow that ... is exactly what my original statement was suggesting - that people are not following the words and ideals that are attributed to Jesus Christ.

    I do not identify, nor follow any Christian faith. So, I'm not sure if you are arguing with something you think I believe or just the idea of what Christianity is supposed to be. If you could clarify, it may help me understand to what it is you are disagreeing with in my post.
  25. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I think you're projecting your own values onto the figure of Jesus. The idea that he was summer kind of quasi-Buddhist tolerance advocate is a modern invention. It isn't based on any objective reading of the New Testament.

    It's essentially the same kind of projection that these "evangelicals" are doing - albeit that your values are much less objectionable then theirs.
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  26. RyanKCR

    RyanKCR TOF/PA survivor

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    Christ did accept and socialize with everyone, however during His interactions He called on them to repent and turn from their sin. He came to reconcile people to Him. He offered the gift of redemption but it required a change in the person.
  27. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    What is it you perceive Jesus advocated?
  28. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    pick any era of "the church", minority offshoots notwithstanding, and you can't find the Christ described in the gospels fitting neatly in any of them.

    Laying aside entirely whether or not such a person ever lived, the life credited to him is very much NOT compatible with any dominant strain of Christianity.



    That said, I readily concede their ARE Christ-like people in our day (and presumably in any age) who self-identify as Christians who are not a disgrace to the term. But generally they have almost no influence on the greater scope of White Christianity. (Ethnic Christianity - Black protestants and Hispanic Catholics mainly are a more complex topic)
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  29. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Jesus is presented as advocating different things in the various gospels - but at bottom I think that he was an apocalyptic preacher, making claims about an imminent "Kingdom of God" which would violently overthrow both the Romans and their lackeys. It doesn't map well onto any philosophy commonly held in the modern world.
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  30. RyanKCR

    RyanKCR TOF/PA survivor

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    Christ never said anything about overthrowing the Romans. He also said the Kingdom of God was not of this world.