Do poor people always have an excuse?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Azure, Oct 8, 2009.

  1. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    First, let me preface this by saying I'm not racist, nor am I bigot, nor do I hate poor people.

    Also, this doesn't really apply to the people who have lost their job in this recent recession, or those who had a bad run of things -- house burnt down, went bankrupt as a result of health care stuff -- etc, etc.

    I'm talking about those people that don't even try. The people that are content to live off of welfare. The people that don't put in the necessary hours and hard work that it takes to be successful.

    I live 5 min for a Native reserve. The majority of the people there are poor. Why? Partly because the Canadian government made the biggest fuckup in history when it decided to force all the natives onto reserves. As a result, you have a entire race of people that are dependent on welfare. The majority of them don't give a shit about working, about being successful, about getting a job, etc, etc. As a result, they're poor. Do they have an excuse?

    One of the native kids I went to school with just completed RCMP training in Regina and was stationed at a town in Sask. Instead of staying in a culture that breeds inept, lazy and worthless people, he choose to move into town, get a job, and take night classes to take his criminal justice degree. Well, he accomplished all that, got accepted by the RCMP, completed training, now he has a bright road ahead of him.

    There are numerous other cases like this. Natives kids, leaving the 'reserve', getting jobs and paying their way through college. Many of them go on to be very successful. Sure, they might not make millions, but they live a comfortable life, which to me says they are successful people.

    But what about those that don't? What about the black kids that choose to stay in the ghetto? Those that choose to take drugs, choose to involve themselves in gangs, and as a result, choose to live off of welfare? Do they always have an excuse? Sure, the job market isn't that great right now, but what about 4 years ago when the economy was doing just fine? Were they out there looking for a job then? If they didn't, do they have an excuse for being poor and living off of welfare?

    Why is it always the fault of the rich people, or the successful people when the poor people are, poor? Why is it always our fault when some dickhead thinks that doing drugs in highschool is cool, and as a result he ends up with a criminal record and now no employer wants to hire him? Whose fault is that?

    I had to deal with some shit lately at work, where one of the natives I hired was doing all sorts of reckless and stupid things on the job, not to mention showing up late for work on a constant basis, not cleaning up after himself, wrecking equipment, etc, etc. So, I fired him. And now the goddamn Peigan Board wants to come after me because they think the decision I made was racially charged. Actually, they're going after Vestas, but since it was my decision, I'm the one who has to go in front of a fucking panel of fucking Vestas lawyers to explain to them what happened, why I fired him, and why the Peigan Native Board of Indian Affairs can go fuck themselves in the ass with their 15' teepee. Not too mention the nightmare that could result from this publicly, considering Vestas had to work literally 2 years to strike a deal with the reserve so they could place windmills on their land. Now, with one of the projects almost completed, the board actually has the gall to try and shutdown the second windfarm we're supposed to start working on very soon, just because I fired a 'native.' Doesn't that piss you off?

    But hey, try explaining that to all the racist fuckheads on the Native Board. As if they're fucking entitled to something.

    Goddammit. :bash:

    So, do poor people have an excuse? Or are some of them just too fucking lazy to put in the hard work required to make a good living?

    But hey, lets put MORE people on welfare. More people on food stamps. And forget that welfare, and those food stamps are supposed to be a temporary help for those people that lost their job, lost their home and need help.

    No wonder our countries have so many poor people. We encourage them to live that way.

    Just like the native board is tell all natives that they don't have to preform. They don't have to do a good job. They're entitled to fucking welfare, entitled to fucking making $22/hour. And if they get fired? It was because of racism.

    :bash:
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  2. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Well, that doesn't put up any warning flags....
    :rolleyes: :lol:
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  3. Liet

    Liet Dr. of Horribleness, Ph.D.

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    Azure can say whatever he wants, and, like usual, all sensible people will refuse to believe anything he says. And, in this case we're dealing not so much with warning flags as with confirmation of previously known facts.
  4. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    Nobody like this up your way? :marathon:
  5. Liet

    Liet Dr. of Horribleness, Ph.D.

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    Ooooh, Azure can't handle being told the truth: he's a racist bigoted douche who hates poor people.
  6. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    I have no tolerance at all for people who think certain jobs are "beneath" them but welfare isn't. Or the ones who use the excuse that they receive more money in benefits then they could ever earn in the sort of job they could hope to get. I don't care if it's 3rd assistant latrine digger at a landfill site for 25 cents an hour. If you're able, you fucking work, period.
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  7. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Well Azure unlike the two morons who posted before me I hope you do well in front of the lawyers. I hope you have everything written down to prove the guy was an idiot.

    Edit: Liet and Diacanu of course are the morons.

    Edit2: I see Mewa squeezed a post in. He's a moron too. A racist moron who can't hold onto a wife.
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  8. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    My deal is he had a good job. A job that was paying him more money than working at Walmart will.

    But he fucked it up, and because I'm responsible for keeping my guys safe, I had to fire him.

    According to the 3 shit for brains that posted before you, that makes me a racist bigot.

    :clyde:

    lol, not you zombie. :salute:
  9. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    Oh, that shouldn't be a problem. I already talked with one of the lawyers in private, and went went over everything. He said there shouldn't be a problem. The biggest hassle will be dealing with the public side of things.

    I actually gave him numerous warnings, and was smart enough to write them down and get it co-signed by at least 5 witnesses. I also wrote down the reaction I got everytime, and also got it signed by a bunch of witnesses that work for me. Including a few natives.

    :devil:
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  10. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    Poverty of spirit breeds poverty of spirit.
    If you grow up in a place where almost no-one has hope of a better life, you have no local role models that are successful and the only options open to you are shitty and limited then its less likely that you will amount to something than if the opposite were true.
    If you are born into a situation with little hope then the chances are you'll turn out like everyone else around you.
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  11. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    So if welfare gives you $200 a week and the only job you can find pays $100 week, you figure people will dump the welfare??

    I agree they should find jobs but no sane person is gonna easily take less when they can have more.

    I hear people say stuff like 'go out and collect cans' or 'take a job at McDonalds'. You need what pays the rent and gets food.
  12. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    The OP was cool it just needed a little bit about some po white people and it would have been level. :shrug:

    I'm sure Azure has at least one loser asshole cousin or uncle he coulda mentioned.
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  13. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Maybe in Winnipeg. Or downtown Toronto.
  14. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    That is also true, and cannot be ignored. I know its tough for the kids born into a culture like that to not screw it up.

    But in the end, it is their choice, and their life. They can CHOOSE to be druggies, or they can choose to want something better.

    I am more than tolerant for some of the natives I've hired that don't really do a good job. I want to give them a chance, and often do, maybe unfairly. Part of the reason is because I'm trying to get them away from that culture that tells them they should live off of welfare rather than work 15 hour days.

    But I also have to fire those that refuse to listen. I can deal with being late for work sometimes, or being forgetful about tools at the jobsite. But being careless time after time with some of the big equipment we use? I simply can't allow for that. I'm responsible for 20 guys, and I don't feel like having to explain to their kids, or their wives why one of them got run over by a dumbass I refused to fire.
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  15. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    Aren't there certain guidelines you must follow? Sounds like you are winging it with the assumption that you are making all the right moves here. You better talk to your HR people to really be sure.

    All that stuff you think is right could actually hang you up. How have you handled OTHER staff? That will be key if this gets blown up.
  16. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Most people won't, but they should. I definitely would.

    It's not about sanity. It's about personal responsibility and consideration for your neighbors. People should not be burdening each other when they can avoid it, even if it's the more difficult path.

    And anybody who's gonna come back with some tired bullshit about my actual monetary contribution to these programs can fuck right the hell off. That's not the point, you know it, and the deflection isn't going to work.

    No, you take what you can earn and tailor your expenses to it, not the other way around. Nobody is entitled to a minimum quality of life.
  17. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    You can't live off of $100 per week. And working at Mickey D's is going to pay you more. Hell, with minimum wage, you WILL earn more.

    And if you do work hard, and you still can't pay for food, there is no problem with using food stamps to feed yourself or your family. But don't get into the habit of thinking a temporary solution like food stamps, welfare checks will always be there. Eventually you gotta do something to earn more money.

    Oh trust me, there are a lot of white people that are in the same boat. I just don't deal with any of them.
  18. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    Still in that same box. :jayzus:

    Unlike you, I will not tolerate living in my car. You should realize that the majority of people in this world are NOT LIKE YOU.
  19. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    I'm going over everything again this afternoon, including the written guidelines that Vestas has in place to deal with situations like this. But, from what I heard, Vestas is sending down 3 or 4 lawyers from Calgary to deal with this. That is why I went over everything with the guy here in town that does most of this branches legal work.

    He said I should be fine. Of course, I don't know for sure.

    I gave him more than one warning, I have witnesses that can testify to that if needs be, and the official reason I fired him was because he posed a danger to the other workers. :shrug:
  20. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Those featherheads come from centuries of living off the land.

    It's not like their ancestors actually had jobs like ours did. :bergman:
  21. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

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    Patterson Oil Company has to hire Indians when they drill on Indian land. Thing is, they don't show up to work and if they do, they show up drunk.

    So they hire them, and pay them not to show up.
  22. Will Power

    Will Power If you only knew the irony of my name.

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    Does Asure always have an excuse:huh:

    :mystery:
  23. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    How is it you 'deal with' the natives and the blacks but not the whites?? Does every white guy in your crew come from some kinda well-to-do, upstanding family??
  24. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Up in your momma's box. :finger:

    Neither will I. That's why I try to hang onto my job and watch my spending. But if it's a choice between applying for benefits and living in my car, I'm living in the fucking car until I can fix the situation on my own.

    Well no shit, Sherlock. I just don't think we should be made to accommodate people who act without conscience.
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  25. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    No, see, reality should be beaten into an ideological abstraction, not the other way around.
    Life stacks better when it's pounded into cubes, see.
  26. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    Sounds good. :techman:
  27. Lt. Mewa

    Lt. Mewa Rockefeller Center

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    :doh: :jayzus:


    Which Patterson Oil Co. are you referring to?
  28. Azure

    Azure I could kick your ass

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    Most of the white people in my crew are good workers. Sure, there are always those that come to work Monday with a hangover, but I don't fire them because of that. Hell, I have 4 natives working for me right now, and I've dealt with more than one problem with all of them. Didn't see a need to fire them though.

    I try to treat my guys as equally as possible....and I try to work around small problems. But when a guy is being reckless with equipment despite numerous warnings, I'm gonna fire his ass. And I don't care its white, pink, purple, black, brown or yellow.
  29. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Thinking beings should act like thinking beings, not savage fucking animals who take whatever they can get, how ever they can get it. Formalizing the process doesn't change it's true nature.
  30. dkehler

    dkehler Fresh Meat Deceased Member

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    What is their evidence that your termination of the employee was based on race?