Dumbass brings a knife to a gunfight. Cops kill him. Public outraged.

CLICKIFY.

So, let me get this straight. The consensus is that they should go hand-to-hand with a knife-wielding fucktard and risk getting cut, rather than use lethal force? And shut the fuck up about Tasers. I'll simulaneously gas, taze, shoot, bazooka, and drop tactical nukes before I give you the opportunity to stab me. I suggest not brandishing knives on the commietrain if this sounds too mean and hurtful to you.

It looks like :darwin: at work.

"More than enough officers to detain someone with a knife."

Oh really now! So who goes near him first? Rookie cop because the department doesn't have much invested in him? Most senior cop because they should have the most experience?

And as for waiting for higher ranking guidance rather than act on their own are you shitting me? He...has...a...deadly...weapon! Take him out with a quickness and go home to your families in one piece, bottom line.

When the general public starts taking the side of the violent threat, you're reaching a tipping point. The cops weren't pepper-spraying old ladies in wheelchairs or kicking in doors and shooting up a school by mistake.

A guy had a knife and the willingness to use it, period. Suicide by cop IMO.

My step-brother pulled a knife on his grandmother a long time ago. The cops did get the knife away, but if push came to shove and they had to choose between getting cut or taking him out, so be it. Don't start none, won't be none bitches!

I've never been in a knife fight or a gun fight but I've seen the results of both in very gory detail during training.

I'd rather take my chances being shot at.

The best thing to do when someone bitches about a knife not being worthy of being shot over is too show them the pictures of survivors and dead people of knife attacks.

If that doesn't shut them up then they are fucking idiots.

I guess I'd have to know more details to judge. I'm told there's a video, but I couldn't get to it.

But reports are that officers had repeatedly demanded that the guy drop the knife and that he made a movement toward them. A movement toward a cop while holding a deadly weapon you've been ordered to drop is a breathtakingly optimistic manuever if you plan on surviving the day.

Yeah, I've got no issues with this. Hard to see how a guy making a threatening move with a deadly weapon shouldn't be dropped.

Got Skittles?

One good way to not get shot by cops is to not pull a knife on them.

Not getting the outrage at all.

Seeing as how this happened in my town and I'm probably more up to speed on this than anyone else on this board (with the exception of 'turk), here's what we know:

A person wielding a knife was on a streetcar. The streetcar had been evacuated and he was by himself. The streetcar was surrounded by 23 armed police officers.

That's about all we know, because the video doesn't give any context other than a police officer lighting up the knife wielder with nine shots fired over thirteen seconds.

The problem is, this same scenario played out almost two weeks ago and the outcome was very different. Three bodies were found in a townhouse complex west of Toronto. The suspect was found in a ravine, knife in hand. Police surrounded the suspect and after some tense negotiation he was subdued and arrested. Don't have a link to the news article but could probably dig it up if I had to.

Of course, every situation can be different. But it's not an unfair question to ask why a lone person contained in a streetcar surrounded by 23 coppers needed to be shot.

Hopefully the facts will come out.

EDIT: I should also point out that Canada's approach to policing is very different than the United States, as our culture is frankly nowhere near as violent as yours. Unfortunately, over the last decade or so we seem to be moving more to an American model, which is far more confrontational. New use-of-force guidelines were adopted in 2004, which tend to escalate situations rather than deescalate them.

It's not unfair to ask the question but it is unfair to be outraged over it without knowing the facts of what happened.

Maybe it was shift change. Who gives a fuck! Don't want to get shot? Don't wave a knife or a gun at a cop.

Totally agree. I know it's "anectdotal" but I've said this before. My step-brother (same guy who pulled on knife on granny many years before) got in a shootout with the cops. He was shot in the head, chest, and through the hand, and suffers no ill effects. Had he got stabbed/cut one time and severed an artery he'd be history. Though not common these days, get shot in the chest with a very sharp broad-head fired from a bow. Your life expectancy is 30 seconds on a good day, if both lungs are pierced or a major artery/vein hit. Bullets cause massive destruction from shock. Get hit with a relatively light hand-gun round and you weigh well over 200 pounds, your body absorbs that shock wave (somewhat) and that small but raggedly cut hole clots easily and doesn't bleed you out normally.

A very sharp blade cuts so clean and makes such a large wound, that the tissue cannot start to bind together to clot and slow the bleeding. The tissue can't get any "traction" so to speak. That's why when you nick yourself shaving it just bleeds...and bleeds...and bleeds. Now imagine that occurring along a path going the depth and distance of an edged weapon.

"Of course, every situation can be different. But it's not an unfair question to ask why a lone person contained in a streetcar surrounded by 23 coppers needed to be shot."

"I didn't know how many it was take to whip my ass......but I knew how many they were gonna use!"

It's not "unfair" to ask any number of blisteringly stupid fucking questions, but you'll never hear me demanding a public hearing or somesuch bullshit to determine why some asstard who pulled a knife on some cops got his ass shot full of holes.

Why didn't they just shoot it out of his hand?

Why do you hate the children, Demi?

Kids are awesome. Best thing ever. You were even a good thing when you were a kid, back before life beat you down.

Have any other non-sequitors?

Not knowing the facts before being outraged didn't stop the Trayvonites from waging a scorched Earth of stupidity campaign.

What I've read so far is that they shot him, then tasered him.

That they apparently had tasers ready to go but still shot him is what concerns me.

I'm not up on the tactical issues, but if there was a point at which he was in the street car by himself, why didn't thy just tear gas the shit out of him? Obviously, if it reached the point of him rushing a cop with the knife in hand, shooting was the necessary response. So the only question regards what happened before that point, and whether there were any options for apprehending him that didn't place officer lives in jeopardy.

Humor. It is a difficult concept.

Here is video:

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[wyt=Enhanced Version]iy2zsuRyjaQ[/wyt]

Okay, maybe I missed something, but when did he approach the police while wielding the knife?

An excellent question. Plus why not taser him first?

I like the tear gas idea. With nowhere for the gas to dissipate his ass would feel that pretty quickly. Maybe they didn't have any readily available.

I'm a big pepper spray fan. If it drives off big Alaskan bears more effectively than shooting them (even with insanely powerful guns) that must say something. I'm guessing the pain and disorientation factor is off the scale to a bear - and most likely a human too.

HA! Can I dig up internet sources or what? Here is the SUPER ENHANCED footage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx9Tovevx6w

Hmm. Yeah, the video doth raise questions.