Elim Garak

Discussion in 'Shelter Releases' started by Bickendan, Jun 17, 2014.

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  1. markb

    markb Dirty Bastard

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    John, have you considered the possibilty that regardless of how many different ways you explain it, it's wrong? Two of the biggest opponents of this are Packard and Async, both incredibly smart and well respected people, and hardly anyones idea of trolls.

    I'm going to bow out now. Thanks for listening.
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  2. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    I always entertain the possibility that I'm wrong. It's just that in this case, I have more information on not only how it works, but also its level of efficacy.
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  3. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    Point of order! Packard and Async are both notorious trolls. We even tried to ban Packard a few times, though it didn't work. And Async has more duals than all the legit posters put together. We can't even keep track of all the Asyncritters.
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  4. Phoenix

    Phoenix Sociopath

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    Well it sure didn't take for ol' Marky to start bitching about the board again. plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
  5. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

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    Well, I have a few thoughts to add as regards "Discourage."

    1. :lmao:

    2. Okay, it's sneaky and underhanded and we should expect sneaky and underhanded in limited scope -- that being, every interaction in the Red Room, and from certain particularly recalcitrant personalities beyond just the Red Room (*cough*Lubak*cough) -- but we should also expect not to encounter sneaky or underhanded via any board-wide system from staff.

    3. It's neither sneaky nor underhanded anymore, now that those of us who pay attention know about it.
  6. Archangel

    Archangel Primus Peritia

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    Reading this thread makes it much more clear why certain people tried to sneak off and start their own board...they don't like not having sway over the owners any more.
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  7. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    This, precisely.
  8. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

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    Of course, I suspected such a feature existed already. I was only wrong about who it was being used on. :dendroica:
  9. markb

    markb Dirty Bastard

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    Oh fuck off you useless tit.

    Damnit, got me to post in this bugfuck crazy thread again. :ua:
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  10. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

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    I don't know about this discouragement thingy. Why not just ban him? And this seems like a lot of trouble for a no-bit troll.

    I mean, this guy isn't even a blip on my radar. He burned a book once. Big fucking deal.

    He's a nobody, and staff are going through a lot of trouble over him.

    Or is he just a test case? :chris:
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  11. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    It's actually less work, because you're right, he isn't worth much trouble.
  12. Asyncritus

    Asyncritus Expert on everything

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    I can't either. :(

    I don't even know which one of me is posting this right now! :soma:
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  13. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Disgusting tactic. But it fits the profiles of the new owners (Anc and Gul in particular) and the new IT guy (John).

    Ban or flood control would work just fine.

    This discouragement tool is just something you guys who support it want to use as revenge harassment for this idiot messing with Wordforge.

    And since it's not a secret because of this thread it's something you want known. You want him to know you're fucking with him. So really it's not about discouraging him to leave through fake error messages and board problems as much as it's about rubbing in his face that you've the power to fuck with him posting on the board.
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  14. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    Wrong on all counts, but don't let my actual experience with the tools stop your speculation.
  15. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

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    We all know that you have actual experience with tools.
  16. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Actually it's right on all counts.

    Use of the discouragement tool is a method of messing with a poster until said poster leaves. It's supposed to be done in secret so the people doing it don't have to man up and admit that they are doing it.

    You however are admitting it and reveling in it:

    "I've set his general IP address to "discourage," so if he tries it again, he should have significant trouble posting, which should be funny for all involved." - John

    You're not doing it to get him to leave. You're doing it to fuck with him.

    Either ban him or flood control him.
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  17. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    Nope, I already explained that, and again, you are wrong on all counts.
  18. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    One day you're going to have to grow up John.

    Tell the person that they are banned and why or tell them they are flood controlled and why.

    Playing "error" games with their account and hoping the result is funny for everyone to see is not the action of an adult with your occupation on this board.

    What you're doing is wrong. Fucking with people just because you can makes you no better then the average bully. If there is a MLP bully character you should change your avatar to that.
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  19. Amaris

    Amaris Guest

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    You don't even know how any of it works. You'd rather believe people who prefer to stir shit up, instead of what I've already explained, and it's because you're looking for drama, and for entertainment, and I'm not going to provide it here.
  20. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    By your own admission it creates difficulties for a member to post on this board when the discouragement option is used against them. You, Ancalagon, and Gul support the use of such a thing. You think it would be funny for everyone to see what happens.

    Under what pretense do I need to know the exact down-to-the-last-details about how the system works in order to say it's wrong to use it? Is it not your own admission (along with Gul and Ancalagon) that the discouragement option makes things difficult for a poster and does so by introducing fake errors and other simulated board problems? That such a system is designed to not prevent posting but frustrate a user to give up and go away? That because this is public everyone will know about it and you hope everyone finds the results funny?

    Messing with his account just sends up a huge red flag to everyone else on the board. Doing this just tells everyone that you and the owners are not above using the board itself to mess with people. Your claim it's not going to be used on regular posters, even if 100% true, just rings hollow.

    Yeah the guy is a fuck-up from sun-up to sun-down but the fact is that reading your posts in this thread comes across very Lisa-like. Also very Bear-like. Going to have to call you LisaBear from now on.

    It's a bad call on your part and the owners even if the target is deserving of it. The members have been told constantly by the new owners about a mods/admins/owners acting better when wearing that particular hat dealing with issues on this board. This thread pokes a pretty big hole in that line of thought.
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  21. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Interestingly enough.......

    Once I saw this thread and started posting in it Wordforge is loading slower for me. Not so slow to prevent me from posting but more then enough time passes between loadings to see a difference.

    Am I the victim of John whose fucking with me to send a message because he's angry I told him to grow up? Or is it a coincidence? See with the revelations in the thread that such a discouragement tool exists and apparently as implied by John can be tailored to do certain things I can't know now.

    Do you not see the can of worms you've opened?

    (plus I do think it's coincidence but..........)
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  22. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    Irrespective of what one thinks of the merits of this discouragement idea, the fact is that since the discussion has been had, not only did it cause a split of opinion in The Shelter, but among the rest of the membership there have been a lot of criticism of it and very few people, if any, lining up to say what a great idea. Now, two of the admin people advocating this idea were very vocal during the latter days of Lanzman's tenure about his lack of interest over the concerns of the membership. With that in mind, even if they think this is a good idea, why are they pressing ahead with it in view of the level of opposition it has received? Sure, I know you could say "they own the board and can do what they like". Well, that, in principle, may be right by itself, but it nonetheless carries a stench of hypocrisy and is inconsistent with their behaviour in the Lanzman days.
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  23. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    I believe we've answered that question a few times, but I will do so once more. The tool and its use has been misconstrued. It really is that simple. This is a way of keeping out a poster identified by the community as unwelcome. The release of this thread so quickly and the parallel helpdesk thread are an acknowledgement that this is something new. It doesn't mean it is what you guys claim it is. So, when you rail against something that doesn't exist, it's a bit difficult to stop using this phantom troll tool that we don't have and aren't using.
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  24. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    ^ I don't think that's the point I was making.
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  25. K.

    K. Sober

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    You understand that this becomes less convincing given that your description, Anc's description, and John's description of this tool are at odds with one another, and not superficially, but with respect to the very concerns that have been brought up about this tool?
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  26. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    They don't seem to be at odds from my perspective. Just because we've each spoken about it in different ways or regarding different aspects does not mean we are at odds. :shrug:
  27. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    I like to think that I'm a fairly reasonable person and not a rabble-rouser. El Chip, Zombie, Packard, Async...all of them made good points in the HD thread.

    Oh, wait, this was my response. Carry on.
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  28. K.

    K. Sober

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    Really?

    You're saying the tool is turned up to the highest setting, which makes it indistinguishable from a ban; therefore, concerns about frustrating Elim are unfounded.

    Anc is saying the tool is great because it is distinct from a ban: The poster can still post, and thus rehabilitate himself by contributing.

    John is saying it's set so he can post under great duress, which will make it virtually impossible to contribute, but fun because it'll be frustrating for him.

    Remember that the concerns you're answering were: why not just ban him? why frustrate him? and won't he still be able to post? So those differences are kind of essential.
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  29. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

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    When Anc and Gul took over the board my only one reservation about it was that both Gul and Anc are the sort of people who simply won't ever admit they are wrong (and I said as much at the time). Hell, I used to be like that myself so I know how to spot it in someone. No big deal. Some people have a lot of pride and sometimes that can be a good thing. But that fact is that when you take a position of responsibility it's important to swallow that pride, even if you personally think you are right, and have a dialogue and show yourself open to concerns. The attitude over this so far is one of complete stonewalling. We aren't told fully how this works and, even if we were, the overwhelming concerns expressed are simply ignored - and these are the very same people who tore into Lanzman for ignoring board problems who now choose to ignore the general consensus. What's worse is that if you dare ask a question about it you're branded a troll. That's the exact opposite of the way to win support and backing - in fact I'd say it's almost Dayton-esque in it's disregard for the views of others.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2014
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  30. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

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    For crying out loud Packard, I addressed every one of those points in the other thread. You even repped the post in which I did it. I can only say the same thing so many times before I walk away, discouraged, so to speak.
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