For all you self-proclaimed "individualists"

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by MikeH92467, Feb 27, 2023.

  1. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    This is an article from one of my martial arts mentors about how the overuse and misinterpretation of the Japanese word Ronin in the U.S. reflects a deeper misunderstanding about the ability to survive without anyone's help. I bolded some of the sections for emphasis and context for this post.

    The Tragedy of the “Wave Person”
    byStephen K. Hayes onFebruary 26, 2023inWarrior Philosophy
    There is an American interpretation of a Japanese concept that is totally backwards.

    Some martial artists love to brag that they are “ronin”, a lone masterless samurai. They even name their (usually small) training halls “Ronin Dojo”.

    Maybe this comes from a misguided sense of the American pioneer spirit, going it alone to forge a new destiny? But even those original pioneers needed each other. They needed a community, needed helpful backup, to contend with the savage onslaught of killer bandits, righteous Indians, snakes, wolves (always in a pack), tornados, and flash floods. One single wagon creaking across the vast prairie and through the mountains all by itself would have been suicide.

    Likewise the samurai of old Japan. What was most desired was warrior protector employment with the most powerful group possible. One would accept ronin status only at the very bottom of the barrel. Being a ronin was a tragic fate, usually reserved for left-over samurai from a defeated and disbanded army, and usually a not so specially skilled samurai. It was a bitter and tragic fate.

    In modern times, Japanese youth who do not qualify for the university, and therefore have to take an involuntary year of hanging around before applying again the next year, refer to their status as being a “ronin”. It is a sad term, filled with regret and a little bit of irony. Nobody wants to be a ronin.

    Bragging of being a “lone wolf” can come from a deep fear that we are not worthy of others showing up for us or caring about us. Others see us as just not worth our involvement. Maybe something important for American martial artists to explore – if they dare? The ronin label in America becomes a twisted badge of honor, a proclamation of “I don’t need any help” or “I want to do it my way” or “Nobody knows as much as me”, spoken life a defiant 5-year old.

    But it could also mask a deep fear of not being worthy of help, unworthy of advice from more skilled people, or not deserving of a community. Being a ronin is, in its original meaning of being a “person (as short-lived and ephemeral) as a wave”, a truly pitiable condition. You are no more than an ocean wave to be seen and immediately forgotten? No Japanese wants to be exiled from community, wandering lonely and rejected through life. Is it truly any different for Americans?

    The martial arts of old Japan have been branded by Miyamoto Musashi as the dokko no do, the “solitary way”. You set out alone and either make it or fail. But is this the best attitude for martial artists today? What will you have learned by the time that it is all over, and are you willing to accept ultimate defeat as a possibility? And what if your final lesson was “I should have opened up to the camaraderie of my fellow followers of that path”?

    I think that there is incalculable power in having a strong community that has your back, that will stand with you, and sometimes allows you to aid them. The bigger and more caring the community, the more advantage you gain. How sad and lonely is that single practitioner, too good for advice, beyond learning from others’ shared lessons, and at core, so brittlely terrified that maybe, just maybe, they are not worthy of others’ care and shared joy.

    Branding yourself a ronin is not a badge of honor. It is to admit to the final disgrace of simply being of no value to all others.
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  2. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Hell, even perpetual loner Wolverine needed the X-Men...
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  3. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    :unsure:
    "Ronin" just means "masterless warrior." As in a warrior who is not sworn to a lord, or whose lord somehow died or otherwise disappeared.
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  4. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    Yeah, and as the OP states, that was considered the least desirable fate.
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  5. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    That's the literal translation, but if you read the fucking article by a guy who has spent decades living in Japan and has a Japanese wife as well being an expert on Japanese martial arts, you would have noticed this...

    Likewise the samurai of old Japan. What was most desired was warrior protector employment with the most powerful group possible. One would accept ronin status only at the very bottom of the barrel. Being a ronin was a tragic fate, usually reserved for left-over samurai from a defeated and disbanded army, and usually a not so specially skilled samurai. It was a bitter and tragic fate.

    In modern times, Japanese youth who do not qualify for the university, and therefore have to take an involuntary year of hanging around before applying again the next year, refer to their status as being a “ronin”. It is a sad term, filled with regret and a little bit of irony. Nobody wants to be a ronin.

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  6. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Oh yes, let's accept how modern youth have co-opted the term and ignore its original meaning, because that's what we do.
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  7. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    THE OP IS ALL ABOUT THE ORIGINAL MEANING

    YOU

    STUPID

    FUCK
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  8. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Being a ronin was a tragic fate, usually reserved for left-over samurai from a defeated and disbanded army, and usually a not so specially skilled samurai. It was a bitter and tragic fate.
    For what it's worth, the word "asshole" has a literal meaning and a modernized idiomatic one. :bang:
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  9. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Lanz is stepping on all the banana peels today.
    :rolleyes:
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  10. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

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    the youth, huh?

    glad we have you to 'splain this sort of thing
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  11. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    46C4F77F-4090-4D8F-B554-3706E5105D8A.png
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  12. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    I can't find a link because it was a series of Instagram posts I saw a while ago, but lots of Western men also make a similar error depicting themselves as lone wolves or lions while describing how tough and independent they are, when both animals rely heavily on the rest of the pack to survive. :async:
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  13. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    That sounds like fake pity from people who actually resent these ronin for withholding their participation. How dare they not bind their priorities to the collective.

    :dayton:
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  14. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Oh, Jesus Christ, you HAVE to be performing this now.
    This HAS to be some Andy Kaufman kayfabe wrestling shit!
    Come ON!
    :lol:
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  15. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    :brood::angel::angel:
    Jesus fucking tap dancing Christ. The post explains the whole thing and you’re response is “they’re just jealous”. Yeah right… :brood:
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  16. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    What would a warrior culture that tried out everything for centuries know?
    UA is smarter even than that! :soma:
    He truly is something special. :salute:
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  17. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I swear UA would happily call himself an incel just to show how individualistic he is. :dayton:
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  18. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Didn't say jealous. I said resentful of withheld participation. Of people who serve their own interests rather than that of the community.
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  19. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Where'd the Ronin get his sword and training?
    QVC and movies?
    :lol:

    "Nobody created me!! I created myself!!".

    [​IMG]
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  20. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    This is where you explain what difference it makes where he got it. Commit yourself to it in plain, unambiguous terms.
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  21. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    It should be self-evident to everyone who isn't brain damaged by lead paint.
    The Samurai train you up, and hand you your sword, you've gotta pay that back doing some Samurai-ing.
    Samurai aren't a charity.
    Once you've done your Samurai-ing, fine, go play Wolverine.
    Thing is, no one was playing Wolverine; Ronin were societal flops.
    Did you read the article, or did your ideology filter block it like an overly aggressive firewall?
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  22. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Gotta pay it back. The one peanut in that diarrhea spray. The implication being that individuals owe a perpetual debt to society.
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  23. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Seriously?

    "Ignoring all of the reasons I'm a fucking hypocrite, I'm clearly not a hypocrite"?

    Alternatively:

    "If we ignore the fact I only have this stuff because of racism, and others still can't easily get this stuff because of racism, there's no evidence of systemic racism"?
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  24. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Forge your own sword, muthafucka.
    :shrug:
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  25. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    Show us the way, oh wise one. :hail:
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  26. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    There is considerable room between "a lone masterless samurai" and an introvert.

    Based soley, on this post (having never taken any martial arts courses, nor ever being remotely interested in martial arts films), I'd say Ashoka Tanno would be / could be / should be brought up as an example of a “ronin”.

    And, honestly, I think she’s better off without the Jedi council - assuming it continued to exist. The Book, “Ashoka” shows how she adapted and found her path. Not sure what all the tv series will bring to that, but …

    At any rate, being an introvert certainly isn’t the same thing as being a ‘ronin’.
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  27. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Hence why the article says introverts co-opting the Ronin thing is historically wrong.
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  28. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    There's also a world of difference between "I'm uncomfortable around people, and prefer to be alone, or with a very small group of carefully chosen friends" and "I am a motherfucking island, bitches!! :alpha:".
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  29. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    In which case, I must have missed the part where people were using the ronin thing. I’ve never even heard the term before.
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  30. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    :rolleyes:

    Nobody said that, you fucking strawman factory.
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