Game of Morons: The UK General Election Thread

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ebeneezer Goode, May 2, 2017.

  1. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Terrorism is not exclusive to anyone ideology. There is only one ideology/religion which makes makes murder a direct order from god though. That is what makes Islam uniquely objectionable and incompatible with civilized societies. There is no order to kill from Jesus.

    Please stop trying to be smart, it isn't working for you.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  2. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    DUP and UUP are two different organisations. UUP has been largely defunct for 30+ years.
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  3. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Did you read the link?
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  4. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Much better than. All you have is seven degrees of Kevin Bacon. Oh, 30 years ago a party member was at a rally with other unionists including some extremist groups. Oh, and one of them once wore a red beret (30 years ago) which was a symbol of Northern Irish resistance.

    Look, I get it, they ocassionally flirted with the passions of other unionists but there is a reason they did not go tge way of the UUP and that is because they were never directly involved with the troubles in the 1970's and 1980's. They are still pretty far right (about the same as the evangelical right in America) but they are not terrorists.
  5. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    The same guy that founded the DUP founded the Ulster Resistance. That's not seven degrees of separation, that's 0 degrees!
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  6. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    The Caananites would like to have a word with you.
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  7. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Terrible, terrible result - Amber Rudd won.

    As for the election... :lol:

    Even with all the fuck-ups, u-turns, May's less-than-stellar time at the Home Office I really thought they had enough to at least keep their majority come polling day, but no.

    Interested to see if this'll be a long-term thing - demographically the Tories have something of an advantage, not entirely offset by the advantage Labour has with the current boundaries, as older people tend to vote Tory and younger people tend to vote less. If this is changing, with the older voters staying away and the younger enervated it presents a challenge to all parties, but mostly the Tories.

    We're likely to have an another election inside two years - no way can May stay in power having been so brutally exposed, so once the Brexit negotiations are on their way she'll be defenestrated.

    Really have to hand it to Corbyn though, he's managed to become more of a political beast and this success - and it is a success - entrenches him as leader.

    And poor Ed Miliband, even when his policies are used by the Tories the public reject them...
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  8. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    We have the WTO tariffs - on UK exports the prices to the EU would be the same as prior to the referendum as the collapse in sterling offsets the rate of tariff. EU imports would become more expensive, so any non-EU alternatives with which the UK has developed trade agreements with would replace their EU equivalents, and with no longer being held to EU geographical protection rules they could be named as to their EU equivalents.

    A sizeable chunk of Germany's growth over the last decade originates from the UK, tell me, you really think Merkel would endanger that?

    We also have the fact the Euro clearing house is in London, and the EU have no way of changing without an act of protectionist suicide and it's effect on London would be minimal as they've years of experience of creating shadow markets.

    The only real problem would be services, they're not covered in WTO tariff rules, however London has already prepared for that as businesses set up satellite departments in various EU nations.

    And then there is security, the big red button. Our military may not in the best state equipment-wise, but our defensive umbrella is highly valued by the Eastern EU states, it's removal would cause internal recriminations within the EU far more painful than the refugee issue.

    The UK doesn't hold all the cards, but we have a better hand than the EU, just depends how both sides play their hands really.

    Both sides have plenty to gain by being reasonable, the EU - currently - has the most to lose.

    I hope not, there'll be a kickback by the right not seen before. Brexit polarized the UK badly, continuing with referendums would likely ensure there would be no healing. Brexit has been agreed upon, it needs to happen, and it needs doing in the next couple of years or the sides will lose rationality.
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  9. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Looking at the percentage of votes UK governments got over the last few years it's interesting how the same vote percentage can lead to wildly different results.
  10. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    A chunk of that is down to the boundaries. They need rewriting every few years, however the data to do so is usually a good decade out of date by the time they get rewritten. That needs changing.

    The last two governments have failed to implement the recommended changes, let alone making future changed expediated, and I can't see this zombie one implementing them.
  11. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Oh, and Nick Clegg :lol:

    Farron barely held on to his own seat.

    The LibDems gained a little more than they lost, so hopefully they'll be clued in that another referendum isn't palatable to their own Remain-heavy supporters, let alone the nation as a whole.

    And can anyone, anyone at all, explain to me the point of the LibDems now? They're not going to win an election, and won't enter a coalition, so they're a party with an actual phobia of governing. So... Why exist? Politics is about getting your ideas implemented, and that is achieved by having access to some levers of power to pull, yet here we have a party who are baldly stating they don't want to touch those levers because they fucked up in the coalition.

    How are they planning on getting their ideas implemented? Wandering outside Parliament with a sandwich-board? Offering blowjobs for policies? A letter writing campaign?

    Are they finally admitting they're a party for people who like ideas like higher taxes, just so long as they're not actually implemented?
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  12. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    The UUP are not defunct. I think you're getting confused.

    The DUP were never directly involved with The Troubles? Really, please stop embarrassing yourself.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
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  13. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    What is the process for redistricting? Generally ours is pretty straightforward in that every ten years is a census which is used to apportion House seats between the states and which the states use for their own districts. So every '10, '20, '30 etc census, two years to process and apportion first election w/new districts is a 'x2.
  14. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    We have a boundary commission. Their job is to draw up the boundaries according to a couple of parameters (although those are 'overridden' where geography trumps math), then Parliament affirms them. Labour did try and remove it from Parliament to the Electoral Commission, which makes more sense as currently it requires some turkeys to vote for christmas, but no government has enacted the plan yet.
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  15. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    In other news, it would appear Diane Abbot isn't the only innumerate one - Labour are trumpeting a great victory, which is odd when they lost.

    The result was a success, not a victory, for the Labour Party and this spinning has a whiff of the Tony Blair about it.

    From a purely political standpoint it's understandable they'd go all awkward squad, but Corbyn has a great chance of trading some of his policies, maybe even a concrete timeframe for another election, in the Queens Speech in exchange for behaving on Brexit and a few other trinkets to spare May's blushes.

    Instead he's going to try and get the Queens Speech voted down and himself installed as PM. Which is fucking nuts, mainly as there would be no way he'd be able to enact anything, the Tories would be able to block anything and everything.
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  16. Minsc&Boo

    Minsc&Boo Fresh Meat

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    Populist of any type are losers!
  17. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    I'd say it's all for public consumption in case the coalition falls apart in the next couple of years and another election comes around. Being seen as a real strong alternative leader is exactly could lead Corbyn to an actual victory in that case.

    Nothing really for him to lose at this point by antagonising the government. Either they go a full five years and it becomes long forgotten political theatre (probably with a different Labor leader in place) or there's an early election and it helps him.
  18. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Lol! Sinn Fein is flying their seven MPs to London to take their seats. In a bid to topple May. Does this mean they will be taking the oath of loyality to the crown?
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  19. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    No they aren't.

    But in better news, reports are that the Tory scum are abandoning austerity. Even if an entirely cynical move it's still welcome.
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  20. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    That would involve some form of planning, the one major takeaway from this election is that both leaders aren't exactly tooled up for that.

    Corbyn doesn't think he's clever though, whereas May and her advisers did, and democracy educated them on that point.

    Corbyn was smart enough to adapt too - the difference from the early days where he would awkwardly eschew the media like a petulant child have long gone, replaced by a confident communicator. May, meanwhile, started to look like a malfunctioning Talkie Toaster.

    Never thought Corbyn would impress me, but there you go, strange days.
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  21. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Depends. Gove is rowing back on that, even though May is heading towards it.

    My problem with the implementation of austerity is how stupid it's been done. I still see tens of thousands being flung at vanity projects, money that should be on front-line services, and I still see an aversion to responsibility.

    A client of mine, a local authority, has spent over three months dicking about and have risked around half a million in additional costs because of that. It is mostly because nobody likes signing things, audit trails are to be feared, and nobody wants to agree on parameters for a project because that would invite ownership. And because I don't want to leave them in the lurch, thus risking even further costs on them, I've had to can another business I was setting up, something I suspect I'll come to regret.

    And that is money that could be spent on staff, on protecting social care, on anything but fucking waste.

    All the damn Tories had to do was audit the shit out of everything, and publish the results. The entire UK public sector, and a few Unions for that matter, would've faced a very public lynching and had no alternative but to change their behaviour.

    Instead they just cut and hoped for the best. Well, that best was a bit shit.
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  22. Stallion

    Stallion Team Euro!

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    Its quite interesting that the red tops had Corbyn as a terrorist across their front pages a week ago and now here we have May, about to sign us up to a government of actual terrorists and we don't hear a peep!

    The political landscape in the last two years is nothing short of a shambles. Having the DUP in government could very easily lead to the breakdown of the Good Friday agreement. As much as the country doesn’t have the appetite for more elections and referendums, clinging onto power is not worth fucking over Northern Ireland in that way.

    One obvious thing to come of all of this is that Indy Ref 2 is now shelved for the foreseeable future. The Tory vote in Scotland was not really a vote for the Tory's, but rather a protest against Indy2. If only a bit more of us had realised Labour were on the march, things could have been different.

    Ideal world – new election, softer approach to Brexit, once the negotiations are done, if it’s as bad as economists say it will be, put the findings out to the public and ask them if they are sure we want to continue to self harm. Corbyn’s not signed up for that approach though but their might be enough sensible people within the party, or from Lib Dem and SNP to push for it.
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  23. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    ^^^I am an ardent critic of theirs but calling the DUP actual terrorists is a bit strong.
    They have flirted with, and occasionally incited loyalist terrorists. But that's as far as it goes. The bigger problems are their extreme sectarianism and their pre-enlightenment social views, heavy on theocracy.
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  24. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    I'm not convinced it'll breakdown the GFA. At least May, unlike Brown, isn't (so far) dragging the NI brief into a potential DUP deal, so that gives me hope that they'll get another party in to tackle the gridlock at Stormont and have recognised the danger of this path. There must be a few ex-White House big hitters wanting a break from Trumpageddon.

    The EU has already made it plain there is no soft option on the table. The 'no deal' options isn't quite as nuclear as people would like to think, WTO tariffs on goods aren't that painful especially in light in the devaluation of the pound - the costs become roughly the same as pre-referendum. And there is reason we have to place tariffs on goods coming inwards, and even if we do it would be harmful to the EU. Said before, only real issue are services which WTO tariffs don't cover, and that's being worked around.

    My fear of pursuing a 'soft' Brexit is that it places us at a massive disadvantage. Politically the EU must start their position to punish the UK as much as possible, so it's in our interests to take a diametrically opposed view, and from there both sides can make acceptable compromises until we reach a deal both sides can live with. If we start half way along, the result would be more beneficial to the EU than the UK, just as the reverse is true of they started half-way along.

    The nature of all wars, of any type, even economic and political ones, is to jockey for position for the eventual deal which will be brokered. Ideally we'd bypass all the stupidity and just go to the deal, but humanity does stupid really, really well.
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  25. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    And to mention the only good thing to come out of the election - the recognition I am not alone in remembering the film Gremloids.

    Took me a bit to realise why Lord Buckethead made me smile, which, given I was only discussing the character 6 months back, I should've cottoned on to right away.

    His manifesto ain't half bad either!
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  26. Stallion

    Stallion Team Euro!

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    Nationalising Adele sounds quite good, she is a cash cow afterall. We should probably do the same with Sheerin and the Premier League.
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  27. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    If we nationalised Rooney we'd be sued by Dreamworks for encroaching on their rights to Shrek!
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  28. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Adele and Sheehan at least have some value. As you note, Rooney would just be liability.
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  29. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Major has urged May to simply go with a minoroty government and not officially invite DUP into a coalition.
  30. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    "Major urges minority" has a certain ring.

    Like the one the Tories are being fucked in.