I Think I Miss Rick Berman - Modern Star Trek In Hindsight

Wake me up when I claim a fucking TV show is committing a hate crime by not featuring my demographic in exactly the way I want.

So you came here to whimper about it?
But you can't even explain what's insulting to you?
Holy cow what a snowflake.

You've cried about perceived cases of white men being emasculated plenty.

You not accepting the explanation is irrelevant.

I have pointed out the hack writing of dumping on straight white guys to "uplift" everyone else, yes. Never claimed it made me a victim.

Like Hell.

I've been rewatching TNG lately, and I think Rick did a decent job of keeping the ship stable. Gene had passed and Rick really did want to honor his work and I appreciate that, I really do, at least in terms of him handling the Star Trek franchise. On the other hand, sometimes you can actually feel where Rick was stifling things that the writers, directors, actors wanted to say and couldn't because he was either afraid it would harm the mainstream sensibilities of the show, or because his own bigotries and ignorance got in the way. So that being said, fuck Rick Berman for being a sexist creep while also using base heterosexual appeal to get men to watch.

Berman's bigotries were Gene approved. Gene tried reaaallly hard to be 100% progressive, but his messy divorce put a throbbing red hand mark of butt-hurt across his ass that manifested as misogyny to his dying day.

Very true. It is something he struggled with. Gene's one of those guys you tend to tolerate because even though he's fucking up, you can see he's working his ass off to do the right thing, and so he tends to get a lot of grace (especially from people like myself), even though he did make a lot of mistakes and did some good people dirty. Rick just went along with it like it was old hat, and so for him I tend to be more judgmental.

and there we have it...

if the straight white guy isn't in charge and constantly coming out on top, he's being dumped upon by hack writers for the benefit of all the other characters. Won't somebody PLEASE think of the straight white guys and their noble sacrifice so that others might be uplifted????

Nice try, but he can be "not in charge" without succumbing to the theater kid level overcompensation of having him mocked as the incompetent buffoon who is somehow also evil and responsible for everything wrong with the world. They did it just fine in the Stargate shows.

And before Raoul chimes in, that was a bunch of traits from a bunch of productions over the years. I am obviously not claiming there is one character checking absolutely all of those boxes, so don't start with me.

SO it never actually happens, you just got big feelings.

I never thought you were this sensitive and insecure. I mean, we all knew you were, jsut not this fucking fragile.

So you're trying to preemptively argue you have no real examples of any of this?

Not what I said. Try again.

Because I preempted the usual nonsense.

No ready example of all those things mashed together, obviously not. I hope your super honest self isn't pretending they never happen independently.

So you have no examples.
I thought so.

Captain Picard, Luke Skywalker, Thor, and it sounds like Blade just narrowly escaped his own humiliation tour.

You will of course chafe yourselves raw trying to elevate your refusal to accept them as more than just a difference of opinion.

Naming random characters doesn't really prove any points, big guy.

Are you trying to b argue Luke got shown up and embarrassed by Leia? Cause, well, that's just a common trope.

You said:

and then immediately tried to weasel out of examples by claiming it was an almost ineffable series of microaggressions.

But you won't provide examples, let alone a road map of it.

So all we're left to conclude is you got some big feels, little fella.

Just no evidence.

you really expect him to expand on vagaries?

I did, when I said, "None of these is really a 'dismissal of established canon.' Some of them, IMO, are dumb ideas. But for it to dismiss established canon, something has to be shown conclusively to be one way, and then TPTB have to ignore that or contradict that."

I then went on to show why none of them (with the exception of DIS Klingons aren't exactly like TOS Klingons) contradict what was in TOS, and even that is an outgrowth of TNG Klingons also contradict what was in TOS in terms of the look of Klingons and their attitudes.

Do you concede these points? If not, what is the contradiction with TOS?

And more to the point, how do any of the issues you name show either a disrespect to TOS's creators or Trek fans?

Let's stick to Trek since this is what this thread is supposed to be about.

How and when exactly did Trek dump on Captain Jean-Luc Picard to uplift anyone else? When was Picard humiliated? When was he depicted as "the incompetent buffoon who is somehow also evil and responsible for everything wrong with the world."?

I'm assuming that the notion was that Sequel Trilogy Luke was largely washed up and in solitude for decades after his failure with Kylo and Rey was on the rise is the "humiliation" that UA is referring to. Never mind that there's pretty much the same pattern with in the OT with Luke succeeding where Obi-Wan and Yoda failed. There's not a gender difference there, so no one is bothered by that.

Similarly, presumably, Thor was allegedly upstaged by Jane Foster Thor, only not. Or at least, no more than he was upstaged by a bunch of children that he chose to share the power of Thor with.

Why he is bringing up Blade and some presumption that he would be "humiliated" is beyond me.

Seems like you should WAKE UP!!!!

because...

The "committing a hate crime" may be an exaggeration. Especially given that IIRC you don't believe in hate crimes. But you are clearly complaining about a number of fucking TV shows and movies are not featuring your demographic in exactly the way you want.

Or are you trying to say that you are not being made a victim by this trend? It clearly bothers you, given how often you bring it up.

He was going to pass the torch to his daughter in a script draft that never happened.
Apparently, unused drafts are canon if you have an imagined grievance to nurse.

There's a deleted script page in "The Professional" where Leon fucks Mathilda.
I'm very angry at that unfilmed pedophilia.
Mathilda rode on top and upstaged Leon.

I was clear in stating that there was no one example representing all of those traits at once.

What they did was reduce Picard to a pathetic old man who needed to be slapped down and berated by people younger, smarter, and of course female.

And you can all spare me the denial.

Well, if Picard being spanked by a girl admiral is taboo, then you have to throw large chunks of TNG in the dustbin, because Admiral Nacheyev was a thing.


I know this is hopeless, and will be ignored, but: stop listening to rage farmers. They suck.

I understand that you are saying that there is no example of someone representing ALL of those traits simultaneously.

What I'm interested in is examples of Picard representing ANY of those traits. I can't really think of any.

I don't think Picard was ever presented as a "pathetic old man" or someone "who needed to be slapped down" or someone who was "berated by people younger, smarter, and of course female."

Sure, he had frictions with Raffi, Bev, Seven, Agnes, Soji...but
a) he also had frictions with Rios, Riker, Shaw, etc. It's the nature of being the central figure in a show that there are going to be conflicts among the crew as to how to do things
b) the conflicts he had were not substantively different than those he had in the TNG timeframe.
c) he was almost almost always portrayed as right in his frictions with characters in Picard. At least, off the top of my head, I cannot think of a time when the show portrayed a stance Picard took that as foolish (indeed, in the entirety of live-action Picard, the only time I can think of when it was portrayed that he was making the wrong choice was in First Contact, when his obsession with the Borg was coloring his judgment and Lily had to encourage him to blow up the Enterprise if needed. And even then his decisionmaking got retroactive justification because he was able to eliminate the Borg threat (ignoring for the moment the terrible Enterprise episode) without losing the ship.
d) He was old, but there was nothing pathetic about him. He was still portrayed as someone to be looked up to. Q, the Borg,
e) The only person who ever in Picard I would say disrespected him was Shaw, and that really was because Picard did step over a line by trying to be like "I'm a big retired admiral and Riker is a big active admiral, so you should do what we tell you without question," and Shaw was like, LOL, no.

Can you provide any examples of what you are considering of Picard having been upstaged by anyone?

Back when Season 3 first aired, we all noticed that many of the people that hated Raffi for sassing Picard absolutely loved Shaw for doing the exact same thing, and the male reason why was qwhite obvious.

Still never occurs to you that people can organically agree.