If that's really Borgs . . .

I'm done.

Why?

1 - Borgs actively tried to destroy Wordforge.
2 - Borgs tried to involve all the members of the board in an illegal torrent site he was setting up. Without telling them.
3 - Inviting him back speaks of incredibly bad judgement on your part.

1. there is much disagreement about this
2. I'll sort of give you that one, though his board had just been stolen from him
3. How so? He hasn't been given mod or admin access. If he could hack the shit out of the place, he'd do it with or without a user ID.

We discussed this early on, I'm sure shootER released the thread by now, but I don't recall any objections offered up about borgs when we suggested a general amnesty for banned users. I'm pretty sure only Ted raised objections. I favor letting bygones be bygones. It's been, what, eight years? I'm sure whatever borgs did, he's grown past it by this point. If he wanted revenge, he would have acted long ago.

Not going to debate this, Gul. If that shithead is back, I'm not going to be here.

Look, let's not be rash about this. If you have legitimate concerns, let's hear them. You say it's incredibly bad judgment. If so, then that implies some concern for the board as a whole. What is it we should fear? Why do we need to protect ourselves against him? Maybe you know something the rest of us don't, and maybe it's time to clue us in, because otherwise it just sounds like you don't like the guy.

While we're at it, what do you guys think about the underliney deal he mentioned in the HD?

I guess I don't care one way or the other about the underline

Yeah, I never really noticed it as an issue, but if you guys didn't like it, you'd tell me, right? Right?

When Borgs came up in the past @Tamar Garish said he wasn't banned and was free to rejoin at any time.

Was this not accurate?

Oh for fuck's sake.

The board was never stolen from him. He made a deal with Elwood because everyone hated his guts and he never wanted to take responsibility for his shit. He knew the majority wanted him to give up the board and he did and at first he was to remain Tech Admin, which he did until his shenanigans.

Nick had a backup copy of the board as part of being Tech Admin, the plan to make another board with it was only discussed among some of the staff as a last ditch plan if Borgs was completely unreasonable or decided to pull the nuclear option rather than give in. Borgs never knew we discussed it, it was never used as a bargaining chip or a blackmail attempt. He knew nothing about it when he agreed to leave as owner...so all the bullshit about pressure and blackmail and stolen boards...is just that...bullshit.

I haven't looked around yet but this thread implies he's back...he should never have that privelege after lying about Elwood and WF to VB and trying to get us in legal trouble, IMO. I'm not sure I want to be here with that jerk either. I'll have to think it over.

If it's really him...is it?

Due to these and similar comments over the year I got the impression that Borgs was not in fact banned and that he was welcome to come back whenever he felt like it. If there is something I don't know about, a secret ban that was lied about in public or something similar please state it now.

Otherwise I don't see what all the fuss is about. The guy felt slighted and tried to be a dick EIGHT. YEAR. AGO. It didn't work, we survived, he's grown, we've grown. What is the issue with letting him post?

He didn't just feel slighted...he attempted to cause legal trouble for Elwood and create a situation to result in Wordforge being shut down.

It might have worked if Nick and Elwood hadn't caught him in the act and was able to talk to and prove to the VB folks that he was a liar.

And you invite him back like a long lost friend. Yeah, he wasn't actively being kept out, but he also was not being contacted and wooed back like most gone WFers might be.

Yeah..it's been eight years...hope he's changed...but the fact the very first thing he did was bitch about some board function makes it seem like it's the same old Borgs. Can't wait for the eternal whining about Baba to resume too.

From Post 47 in the "Time to Talk" thread . . .

Remember that bit? Gul and Anc even "liked" it.

Okay, my bad, I did forget about that. I'm still of the opinion, though, that something that happened 9 years ago, which was done in a moment of impulsive anger, is something we consider forgiving.

Wait, so there was a double secret ban?

There was nothing "secret" about it. I stated multiple times that I would never let Ted or Borgs back on Wordforge. I did assume that Borgs probably lurked under a dual, tho.

This particular borgs has a unique IP address in our database, so if he lurked under a dual, it's been a while. To be honest, I doubt very much that he plans to spend much time here, he no doubt has other things occupying his life at this point.

IP addresses change. People change providers (I know that I do whenever one's got a better offer). It's extremely unlikely he'd have the same IP after that many years so he could have come back at any time anyway

For the record, I never cared for Borgs, but if he's not going to be given any keys to the kingdom now, what harm can he do?

It seems Lanz has been pretty consistent and clear about this. But, Tamar, it seems pretty unfair for you to repeatedly say that Borgs isn't banned and can come back if he wants to, but then to talk about leaving because of it when the new owners take you at your word.

Years ago I was told by one of the people directly involved in it that Borgs was told about the plan to take the board backup and rehost elsewhere, and was given an ultimatum about it.

Really though, it was all the better part of a decade ago, still holding a grudge either way is silly.

I was directly involved in it and was told no such thing. There was no reason for Elwood and Nick to lie about it. Some people love to pretend Borgs was some sort of victim which is far from the truth.

No mistake...it was prepared for and would have been done if it had to be, but Borgs gave in when he was offered to remain Head Tech Admin..which he would probably be still today if he hadn't signed everyone up to his pirating site without people's permission and advertised said site at the top of the page at just the wrong time for our host to see it and shut us down until Elwood straightened it all out.

It's just bizarre to welcome someone back who wanted to destroy the place. Who had no compunction about trying to cause legal problems for Elwood. Sure, he might have wandered back here on his own someday and nothing active was being done to prevent it...but to go out of the way to invite him back like an honored guest after what he did was ridiculous.

I don't like the idea that he's back, and I've privately made my concerns known to Ancalagon. However, I no longer remember with certainty the events that transpired back then, so if I can't remember why he shouldn't be here, then it's been long enough to give him a second chance I suppose.

I think people forget that Borgs was in University back then. You seriously saying you didn't change/grow up much between 22 and 31?

People certainly change ... among other things, people who lack impulse control at 22 generally learn that impulse control is good for self-preservation. But if a person's impulses are toward vengeful destruction and they just happened to learn to keep it under wraps, it doesn't really make me feel that much better about them.

Still, it's not like anybody's talking about handing over the keys, so ...

Okay, so this has come up a couple times and it might be part of the reason it seems we have very different views of the situation.

In an of itself a torrent is not illegal. It is simply a file distribution system. The legality/illegality of the file is the issue, not the manner of distribution. My gun board has multiple torrents up on everything from shooting stances, to legal shit (as in cases and stuff), to camp cooking and half a dozen other topics in between (some of these old fucks have been collecting magazine and newspaper clippings, BBS threads, you name it for DECADES and have giant ass pdfs they've scanned).

So while I agree signing people up for something they didn't volunteer for was wrong, and is not something I would do, he did not bring anyone into illegal activities. Questionable yes, considering that questionableness, something I would want to be associated with, no, but illegal, no.

I think it would be foolish to pretend that Borgs intent was to share legal content, especially given that he's a member of the UK Pirate Party.