Is it okay to punch Nazis?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by 14thDoctor, Feb 15, 2017.

?

Is it?

  1. Yes, because they're fucking Nazis.

    62.5%
  2. No, because violence is never the answer.

    37.5%
  1. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Get Sleazy.

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    20,154
    Ratings:
    +17,545
  2. Paladin

    Paladin Gunner Joe

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    Ratings:
    +36,456
    If you punch someone for their political views--no matter how repugnant--you are committing a crime.
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Sad Sad x 1
  3. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Get Sleazy.

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    20,154
    Ratings:
    +17,545
    Lame non-answer. Not every crime is morally or ethically wrong. :shrug:
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  4. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37,891
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,756
    Violence is only the answer in self defense or in defense of a third party from aggression
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  5. Faceman

    Faceman Making Wordforge Great Again

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    35,816
    Ratings:
    +17,425
    Or against your wife if she gets uppity.
    • Winner Winner x 4
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  6. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37,891
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,756
    No. I'm totally against violence against women and children.
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  7. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,449
    Ratings:
    +18,182
    Yeah, these two pretty much cover it. If it's an actual Nazi, self-defence is more likely to be an issue, and then it's alright, of course. But self-defence happens against violence or the direct threat of violence, not against speech or stupidity.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19,348
    Location:
    here there be dragons
    Ratings:
    +7,406
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    19,348
    Location:
    here there be dragons
    Ratings:
    +7,406
    Also, poll sucks, violence is definitely the answer to violence, but speech is almost never violence.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. Quest

    Quest not your fucking Uber Staff Member Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2004
    Messages:
    14,587
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Ratings:
    +9,099
    Nazis are only dangerous in large numbers. A lone Nazi is just pathetic. Punching him would be neither honorable nor an effective counter-argument to his ideology.
  11. Paladin

    Paladin Gunner Joe

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    38,651
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    Ratings:
    +36,456
    It's not only illegal, it's immoral if you believe that people shouldn't (1) take the law into their own hands and (2) use violence against someone simply because they hold a different view.

    So, it is a crime and should be.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg מלאך נורא Administrator Overlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,938
    Location:
    Planet Motherfucker.
    Ratings:
    +9,837
    I have no problem with punching Nazis.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26,616
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +13,411
    No one should resort to violence unless in self defense or in the defeof others. 14D would probably get his ass kicked to irl but I guess it is easy to be an internet warrior.
  14. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    26,616
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +13,411
    Not to mention it starts a downward spiral where the Nazis/whoever decide to beat up leftists/socials/communist s/whatever and before you know there are running street battles where people are getting beaten/killed for their political beliefs and it is real hard to put that genie back in the jar once it starts.

    A better response to objectionable speech is more free speech and logical argumentation. The left in America is very poor at that logical part, I admit, but if they tried they could get better. Maybe they would actually even come up with better policies and start winning elections again. Stranger things have happened.
  15. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,504
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ratings:
    +23,107
    It is always okay to punch a nazi.

    cap-punching-hitler-630x387-1464367261.jpg
    • Winner Winner x 5
  16. Tuttle

    Tuttle ...

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,409
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +3,085
    Not just "Nazis," but any fascist, right?

    Frank Zappa on the fascist left
    So, including leftie fascists - some of them need punchin too, right?
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  17. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey precariat

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    18,433
    Ratings:
    +9,641
    Thing is, the lefty authoritarians (you and Frank are misusing the word as fascism is by definition right wing) can usually be reasoned with. While you may not change their ideals, you can usually bring them to moderation.

    Nazis and fascists tend towards either aggression or bafflegab. That is, you not only can't reason someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get to, and they'll often jump you for trying.
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Kilometres O'Brien

    Kilometres O'Brien Keiko makes me wear it

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    19,642
    Location:
    Transporter Room 3
    Ratings:
    +11,391
    Personally, I don't think violence is ever morally justifiable (even in self-defense or defense of others), and I recognize I'm in the minority on that. But to play devil's advocate, a strong argument could be made that punching a Nazi is legally and morally justifiable.

    First, the Nazi ideology unequivocally calls for violence against non-whites and non-Christians. Punching a Nazi is arguably self-defense (if one falls into that targeted demographic), or at least defense of others. Both self-defense and defense of others are legally justifiable uses of force in certain situations, but the threatened violence usually needs to be imminent. Arguably, the collective Nazi movement poses an imminent threat, whereas an individual Nazi would not necessarily (unless actually acting in that way).

    Second, the Nazi ideology is not one that can be rationally argued with. It is inherently an emotional ideology, devoid of any reason, and based on violence against non-whites and non-Christians. If all a Nazi recognizes is hate speech and violence, it could be morally justifiable in certain situations to react to a Nazi similarly.

    But again, violence is bad. Don't punch anyone, and do your best to resist the very compelling urge to punch Nazis.

    Instead, melt them with the Ark of the Covenant. :diacanu:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Tuttle

    Tuttle ...

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,409
    Location:
    not NY
    Ratings:
    +3,085
    ^Yeah, both groups of germans thought they were right too.

    That is, both the Nazis and couple of decades later the hundreds of students at Zappa's concert (as far back as the fuckin 60s) that rushed the stage shouting "ho ho . . ho chi mihn" because Zappa refused to help them attack a base, and had the gall to question their mental health.
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  20. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37,891
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,756
    Out of curiousity how do you arrive at that?
  21. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    12,422
    Location:
    South Park, Colorado
    Ratings:
    +9,226
    If they are actual Nazis from WW2, who are all likely dead, then yes.
  22. Captain X

    Captain X Bully!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    13,515
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +8,282
    It certainly is funny that the "Love Trumps Hate" crowd is going around arguing in favor of using violence in this way. Even better is when they try to defend it because the target is a Nazi when they literally go around and label everyone they don't like a Nazi. So basically they're saying they should be able to beat up anyone they don't like. ;)
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  23. Captain X

    Captain X Bully!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    13,515
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +8,282
    All of this has happened before. :bergman:

    • Winner Winner x 1
  24. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    12,422
    Location:
    South Park, Colorado
    Ratings:
    +9,226
  25. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    12,422
    Location:
    South Park, Colorado
    Ratings:
    +9,226
    Yeah, because white libertarians are totally the same as Nazis.:facepalm:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Dr. Krieg

    Dr. Krieg מלאך נורא Administrator Overlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,938
    Location:
    Planet Motherfucker.
    Ratings:
    +9,837
    Yes.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Fantasy World Fantasy World x 1
  27. Kilometres O'Brien

    Kilometres O'Brien Keiko makes me wear it

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    19,642
    Location:
    Transporter Room 3
    Ratings:
    +11,391
    Unlike you, I think that more violence is never a good solution.
  28. Kilometres O'Brien

    Kilometres O'Brien Keiko makes me wear it

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    19,642
    Location:
    Transporter Room 3
    Ratings:
    +11,391
    This is literally you:

    [​IMG]
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
  29. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    37,891
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,756
    What makes you think I advocate "more violence"?
  30. Kilometres O'Brien

    Kilometres O'Brien Keiko makes me wear it

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    19,642
    Location:
    Transporter Room 3
    Ratings:
    +11,391
    From what you said in this very thread:

    Does that not constitute more violence?