Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by 14thDoctor, Feb 15, 2017.
So not punching people is cowardice? Interesting modus operandi you live by.
The flip side of this is that these fascist groups could well to return the favor, so to speak. As that "Years of Lead" video illustrates, the communist faction engaged in violence first, and then the fascists engaged in violence themselves, and things got a lot worse in Italy because of it. Do we really want to see that shit here? We're already starting to see the beginnings of it.
Only in your warped, child-rape apologist mind could advocating for a civil society in which people don't use violence to settle differences of opinion equate with cowardice.
Don't protest fascists, it means they win?
Fuck, but you're an idiot.
Protest ≠ punch. Duh.
I don't believe that and neither should you, any more than you believe that the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't want its funeral protesters to get punched, preferably on camera.
Seriously, why do you [general] readily accept that WBC is trolling for a physical response so they can get sympathy and sue, but you don't accept that from Spencer and the like? Obviously Spencer is out for power rather than money, but the tactic is clearly the same.
If you don't want to punch Nazis, that's fine. I never even said I was personally going to punch Nazis. But if you're going to keep claiming that the best way to counter Nazis is to let them do whatever they please without fear of reprisal, you're an intellectual coward with a serious ignorance of history.
They can say whatever they want. If they try to do anything, that's what the police are there for. It is not up to you or anyone else to enact vigilante justice.
so.. you're saying there's no need for guns and theSYG is pointless because the cops will protect you?
Does anyone even give a shit about Nazis anymore?
I know someone who is a Nazi, and is active in the National Socialist Movement. He goes to rallies and everything. You know who shows up to protest those rallies?
Jews? Nope. Black people? Nope. Mexicans? Nope.
The protesters, according to him, are anarcho-collectivists. The only group of people who give enough of a shit about Nazis to actively protest them are a group that absolutely no one gives a shit about.
Ignoring Nazis is much more effective than punching them. Their views are stupid and unpopular, they know this, and they want attention.
This Nazi that I know, sometimes he spouts his bullshit to me. I could punch him, but instead I'm just like "yeah, whatever." I think he'd prefer it if I punched him.
Sometimes, the correct thing to do is to just not give a shit.
When seconds count, the police are minutes away. And the funny part is that I'm advocating against using violence as a first resort, while you are apparently arguing in favor of that. The people you're talking about are not a direct threat to anyone, so by physically attacking them, you are the one breaking the law.
What's interesting is seeing just how quickly "progressives" such as yourself will turn into an lynch mob.
Yep - if it's okay to punch anyone you don't like then you can punch everyone you don't like. Today it's a Nazi, tomorrow you are punching a smart-ass liberal wearing his hair in a man-bun. So where would it end? Nearly every day during my commute I have to suppress my road rage and the related urge to go all Heisenberg on my fellow motorists. Plus I don't want to break my fingers because that really hurts!
Oh, that sounds mighty different.
If they remain within the law, what can you do?
Well, you can refuse to play their game. That's one way to frustrate and hold them back. And you can take political action to ensure that they forever stay in nowheresville.
Cuz they ain't goin' away.
Not wading back to check, so apologies if this has already been posted, but Cracked summed up the argument Nono is making quite well:
The only good Nazi is a dead one.
But the unwritten rule is that you have to let the Nazi make the first move in order to be justified.
That is not what he is saying and you know it.
And given you think it's acceptable to punch a Nazi, as deserving as they are of such a thing, it's easy to see why we need guns.
Because violent leftist people like yourself have a dirty habit of calling everyone a Nazi or any other derogatory term when those people don't agree with you politically.
That's pretty much my reasoning, except I set a lower bar for what counts as the first move.
Which only proves what a thug you are. Kind of like a brownshirt.
Na... Fifi often stinks of hypocritical false dichotomies. This was simply one being pointed out.
Of course it's acceptable to punch an actual nazi (they're easily identifiable by the swastika and st george cross patches on their bomber jackets) as they tend to swing or act aggressively first (whenever there's a numeric advantage). There's also a local historic rivalry between the street-core punks and aryan nationalist skins here... we even had honest to goodness rumbles in younger years. Disturbingly, they're having a resurgence as Canada's "alt-right", lead by our own clickbaitbart news media; therebelmedia. The racism is so thinly veiled as to be insulting to their own intellects, let alone anybody else.
Interesting that you see this as a cause to carry a gun and escalate a situation from violent to lethal. While often these mutual assaults are aggravated by various weapons and objects, when we fight here, it's generally to incapacitate.
When have I ever a) agreed with you or b) called you a nazi? Your need to bring a gun to a fist fight may imply a certain cowardice, but I don't think I've ever called anyone a nazi who didn't already claim it for themselves. But you knew that was as much of a strawman as my reinterpretation of fifi's words.
Definitely not a fight starter, but even pushing 50 I'm still capable of engaging. I'm still the idiot that stands up and does something when others are threatened (okay, we did chase down that russian dude after seeing him on our way for punching the old lady at random-but, he punched an 80 year old woman.). Maybe it's easier because there's a very slim chance of getting shot? Sure, I've bitten off more than I can chew a few times and gotten my ass handed to me... sometimes stepping up is the strategic victory because they would've hurt someone else a lot worse.
And here I thought I was the only one left that stupid.
It's also Doing the Right Thing. Yes, you may have your ass handed to you, but you've defied them, and there's always a benefit there, even if only a karmic one....
As I've told people including my students
"You know I don't fight anymore".
I'll have to get by on my charm and good looks......
This is why it's okay to punch nazis
A spontaneous outpouring of support for the Muslim community was the response to a small short-lived anti-Islam protest outside a downtown Toronto mosque on Friday.
Photos online showed a small crowd with signs stating “No Islam.”
After seeing pictures of the protest online, approximately 20 to 30 people showed up outside of Masjid Toronto, a mosque in the heart of downtown Toronto, armed with last-minute signs. But before any of them arrived, the protest had already dispersed.
A Facebook event for the initial protest said that attendees would go to the court hearing of Eric Brazau, a Toronto man who was convicted of willfully promoting hatred against Muslims and criminally harassing a Muslim man and was “detained briefly last week for countering an anti-Trump protest.” The event said attendees would then march from the courthouse to a mosque with “anti-Islam signs.”
The group was also protesting Motion M-103, which made news this week as it was debated in the House of Commons, claiming it would violate freedom of speech rights. The motion’s goal is to study how the government can tackle systematic racism and religious discrimination including Islamophobia.
“There’s always going to be the sort of people who are pressing buttons of division everywhere and my understanding of the protest is it was a handful of people, not thousands. So for us to expect that such people are not around and such people don’t exist is unrealistic,” said Abdul-Basit Khan, who attends the Masjid Toronto mosque and is a former member of the mosques executive committee.
Khan said the mosque has not seen a similar protest in its 15-year history.
“The first protest was probably planned and organized. You don’t have people naturally coming to a mosque and saying bad things about its attendees and their faith. But the counter-protest, it was spontaneous. That’s more telling,” Khan said.
Khan also said be believes there’s “no better place to be a Canadian Muslim than in the GTA.”
“The GTA is so diverse,” Khan said. “It is so full of decency.”
The reaction of Torontonians to the initial protest just further proved that to him.
Katie Berger had just finished up a dance class when she saw at photo of the protest on Facebook. She immediately messaged some friends to meet her there and headed over to the mosque.
“It’s horrifying,” she said. “It’s completely unacceptable for people or groups to be targeted this way.”
She arrived to signs taped to the building’s walls: “We stand with our Muslim brothers and sisters,” “We welcome our fellow Canadians of all religions,” and “Whoever you are our heart is the same our blood is the same all over the world.”
“This is not an isolated incident,” Berger said of the protest. “They’ve always happened. They didn’t just start happening but they’re happening more and more. People are less ashamed about it but it’s up to us to respond as soon as we can.”
Michelle Robidoux, who also showed up outside the mosque after seeing a picture of the initial protest online, said it was “stressful” seeing the picture, especially so soon after six Muslims were murdered in a Quebec City mosque on Jan. 29.
Lane Patriquin, who was one of the first to arrive at the counter-protest, said it’s more important than ever for marginalized groups to “stand together.”
“I feel like solidarity among marginalized people now is particularly important because I worry the right wing is using a divide and conquer tactic with marginalized groups,” Patriquin said.
Kat Stoughton and her children Mia and Lily made hurried signs before attending the counter-protest.
“My best friend is Muslim,” Mia’s sign read.
“Everyone is Welcome!” read Lily’s.
Stoughton said they weren’t sure if others would come out but they wanted to “stand up for justice.”
“We wanted to make sure there was the alternate voice here,” Stoughton said. “[The protestors] don’t speak for most Canadians. They don’t speak for me.”
Adila Mulla, 23, and Leya Jasat, 19, who attend school in the area and are both Muslim, said they happened to be walking by when they saw the gathering. They stopped to thank some of the counter-protestors. Mulla even stared tearing up.
“It’s heartwarming to say the least. I got emotional,” Mulla said. “I want to give a big hug to everyone here.”
“It’s nice to see someone supporting us especially with what’s going on in the world,” Jasat said. “I’ve felt less safe after all the hate crimes but it’s good to see there’s someone out there to help out.”
That's some damn tortured logic. "Good people counter-protest bad people, so it's okay to punch nonviolent people"? Are you kidding?
when did I say it was okay to punch non violent people? I specifically laid out the conditions I felt a nazi (and not some average angry and ignorant type) was worthy of punching...thought the in defense of self or others part was clear?
also, again it's worth noting that the alt right terrorist from the QUebec mosque attack was a fan of the same media group that inspired (organized?) this mini mob.
Such as, for example, standing there and giving an impromptu interview in the middle of the street.
Which can cause permanent damage. Which at times could be death. I mean, it's not like someone could be beaten to death or anything.
I'm sure this is the real reason racists like yourself don't like private ownership of firearms - wouldn't want a potential victim to be able to fight back.
Because they say mean things we don't like? Does that mean I can sucker-punch you in the face, too, racist?
I'm pretty easy to find.
But why sucker punch? Are you too much of a coward to come at a man from the front?
If it's good enough for regressive racists such as yourself, I guess it's good enough for me.
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