Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Tuckerfan, Mar 26, 2023.

  1. tafkats

    tafkats vagina filled dick balloon Moderator

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    ... after Egypt blockaded Israeli shipping.

    ... after Egypt blockaded Israeli shipping again.

    ... after literally hundreds of attacks were launched against Israel from Lebanese territory.

    ... an error only in its description of which group of terrorists were attacking Israel at that particular time.
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  2. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Right, and if that means that "who started it" isn't necessarily who fired the first shots, then we have to recognise that all of these conflicts have a mountain of antecedent causes and we can't self-servingly blame one side for them all for the purposes of a cute chart.

    Most glaringly, if blockades are casus belii, then more recent events are not as represented. Can't have it both ways.

    No group of terrorists were attacking Israel at that time. It was largely a campaign of protest and civil disobedience in response to twenty years of occupation and oppression. There was violence in the form of rioting but there were also no Israelis killed in the first year. A heavy crackdown including explicit instruction to "break their bones" caused the situation to degenerate, led to much international outcry and ultimately the "peace process".
    The Second Intifada was different, and you may be conflating the two.
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  3. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    [​IMG]

    Anyway, amazing that the "ceasefire" in Lebanon is still holding, given that the Israelis have violated it dozens of times, under the supposition that they're entitled to "enforce" it themselves or that they're allowed to take "defensive" actions, like occupying villages that they were unable to take during fighting. Apparently there's a side-letter with the US giving them this latitude. You just know that as soon as anyone fires back, they'll get the blame and it will be right back to carpet bombing.

    Meanwhile, genocide in Gaza continues without raising a peep in the west, with hundreds killed including aid workers, medics and children. There are talks about a ceasefire there too, but we know that Netanyahu isn't interested.
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  4. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    United States President-elect Donald Trump has promised “there will be hell to pay” if captives held in Gaza during Israel’s ongoing war are not released by the time he takes office on January 20.

    The statement on Monday was Trump’s most forceful on the deadlocked efforts to bring an end to the war since the November 5 US elections and comes amid reports that he is pushing for a ceasefire to be reached before his second term begins.

    In a post on Truth Social, Trump decried “all talk, and no action” about the captives in apparent derision of US President Joe Biden and his administration’s inability to broker a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas in more than a year of war.


    “Please let this TRUTH serve to represent that if the hostages are not released prior to January 20, 2025, the date that I proudly assume Office as President of the United States, there will be ALL HELL TO PAY in the Middle East, and for those in charge who perpetrated these atrocities against Humanity,” he said.

    “Those responsible will be hit harder than anybody has been hit in the long and storied History of the United States of America. RELEASE THE HOSTAGES NOW!” he wrote.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/12/2/trump-says-hell-to-pay-if-captives-in-gaza-not-released

    Rick is overjoyed :)
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  5. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    No, Rick already said that this kind of bellicose rhetoric is exactly what Trump would resort to, because he says the quiet part out loud and doesn't bother with duplicious PR. This is him posturing as a hardman and positioning himself to take credit if the ceasefire talks work out.
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  6. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    If blockades and the like count as being in a conflict, then by definition the current conflict didn't start with the October 7 attacks.
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  7. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    https://www.ynetnews.com/article/rjxb1y6myx#autoplay

    The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice. You don't get to murder children for a living and then go on a nice city break at the weekend.
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  8. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    There is no end in justice as justice is just another war cry by either side. That war is never going tio be just so it just keeps on making more war. There is no right punishment that removes the deep stains of these conflicts. There is no amount of punishment or death you can bring to either side to make up for the lives that are lost and the trauma that has been done.

    The only end is forgiving. It is a tough and jagged pill to swallow for the hurt people so I do not expect it to actually come. I am not even going to ask either side. However, I will state the fact that it is only in forgiveness this will end because no side accepts justice without oppression.
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  9. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    Cool, take some Israelis hostage. That never, ever goes badly for the hostage takers and everyone in the general vicinity of said hostage takers. Surely your purely symbolic victory won't somehow turn into a bloody and crushing defeat. :)
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  10. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Amnesty International investigation concludes Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians in Gaza

    Took them long enough.

    Now we have...

    Amnesty International say Israel is committing genocide.
    The Lemkin Institute say that Israel is committing genocide.
    The UN say that Israel is committing genocide.
    Israel on trial before the World Court for genocide.
    Israeli leadership are international fugitives from arrest warrants for mass murder.

    How difficult is it now to sustain the position that all of these are engaged in a game of make-believe?
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  11. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    After seeing photos yesterday of a Palestinian girl shot dead in the chest, I have to say I agree.
    A 12-year-old girl is not Hamas.
    It's time for this to stop. Clearly Netanyahu doesn't actually give a shit about the hostages still being held.
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  12. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    I know for most this is a distinction without a difference but legally speaking it matters.

    It does appear Israel is conducting Ethnic Cleansing in Gaza but it doesn’t reach genocide IMO.
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  13. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Quite the diplomatic spat between Ireland and Israel. They've closed their embassy (I love it when the trash takes itself out) and labelled our PM anti-semitic, after we joined the genocide case against them at the ICJ. In response, Simon Harris accused them of starving children and killing civilians.
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  14. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    More chat of a ceasefire but we've been there before.

    Genocide continues:

    https://x.com/ytirawi/status/1869716451436937260

    Also:

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    This is from Israeli media.
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  15. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    https://www.jpost.com/bds-threat/article-833231

    So yeah, really there are no heroes here. Not that anyone deserves what is happening to the Palestinians, but it's harder for me to feel as much sympathy for people who would and have done the exact same things to other minority groups.
    And the idea of "pinkwashing" is revolting. Two things can be awful at once. There's no need to ignore the suffering of LGBT people just because their oppressors are also suffering.
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  16. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    LOL

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  17. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Good. Fuck him.
    Now if only other countries had that much gumption about Putin.
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  18. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    The last picture of Dr Hossam Abu Safia, head of Jamal Adwan Hospital, now kidnapped by IDF terrorists, who have since burned down his hospital. The first time I've seen a man look bigger than a tank.

    20241228_222100.jpg
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2024
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  19. Rincewiend

    Rincewiend 21st Century Digital Boy

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  20. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    I'm having a late lunch right now so I actually watched a video someone posted for once. Did you check out that guy's channel? It's video after video of both Palestinians and Jews being equally awful and unconcerned with the suffering and death on the other side. :clyde:
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  21. notnick

    notnick lost, as usual

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    i don't know why or how and i am not smart enough to figure it out but it seems to me that 'hate' has become the easiest thing to teach these days.
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  22. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    Sadly, if you look throughout history, that seems to be the trend whenever there's some societal or cultural turmoil. The Other is threatening the Tribe, and the Tribe must be protected at all costs. Historically, as awful as it really is, there might be some logical survival instinct to it. Now? Fuuuuuuck
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  23. Rincewiend

    Rincewiend 21st Century Digital Boy

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    Not black and white enough for ya?!?
    Both sides suck...
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  24. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Yeah. In a nutshell.
    If the Gazans could do to Israelis what the Israelis are doing to them, they would.
    That, of course, does not excuse anyone's actions. But short of a third party coming in and forcing them to stop, it probably never really will.
    I'm reminded of a Garth Ennis Punisher story called "Kitchen Irish", where at the end Punisher had a Protestant and a Catholic Irish person in a room, both beaten and dying. He threw a gun down between them and left, and the last we see of them is both of their desperate attempts to get the gun, crawling across the floor to it, so they can get to kill each other with their last breath.
    That's basically Israel/Palestine. And I'm really starting to run out of fucks to give for either of them.
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  25. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    [​IMG]
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  26. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Fortunately, justice is making some progress.

    IDF terrorist Yuval Vagdani (allegedly one of those involved in the murder of Hind Rajab) fled Brazil after procedures were initiated against him. These were based on videos uploaded of him destroying civilian homes while making genocidal statements. It follows similar events in several other countries.

    IDF Radio opened with a warning to soldiers on how to avoid arrest yesterday.
    And there is a guide produced in Israel, with some revealing excerpts, particularly the last one.

    [​IMG]

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  27. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Good Lord, it's like reading a How-To guide from Pol Pot.
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  28. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    I mean...

    upload_2025-1-8_11-40-11.jpeg

    People on all sides get racist as hell during war, but it doesn't mean they're inciting genocide, especially if they're some low level nobody as opposed to a political leader. :shrug:
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  29. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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  30. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    And in the latest underscoring of the sheer criminality of the Biden Administration, it appears that Trumps guys are leaning hard on the Israelis and will probably have a deal over the line to end this in the next few days. Toys are being thrown out of the pram regarding some of the concessions that will be made but it's basically the same deal that has been on the table for almost a year now.
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