Let's talk about "niggers." For real, though.

Discussion in 'The Help Desk' started by 14thDoctor, Dec 3, 2016.

?

Should there be a rule against racial slurs and racist speech?

  1. Yes. It contributes nothing and makes all of us look terrible.

    8.0%
  2. No! Free speech is more important than people feeling uncomfortable or harassed.

    36.0%
  3. Kind of? A single slur isn't so bad, but doing it repeatedly should warn you a vacation.

    56.0%
  1. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    Become the boss like I am and you might be able to. ;)

    Like I said above, it is not about the merits of that law. It's that it exists. Your attitude just shows a selfish disregard for non-Americans.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Looks like CaptainX doesn't know the definition of censorship.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  3. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    Which I also happen to be against.

    Only to people like you who confuse allowing something to exist with approval for it, which is pretty much the whole "social justice" ideology in a nutshell. :diacanu:
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    Way to miss my point there.

    Suggesting that someone might get in trouble for something someone else posted on a forum that isn't under the jurisdiction of your country is ludicrous and only points to the need for reform in your own country.

    Looks like you don't. Or the concept of free speech apparently. :garamet: Unsurprising considering the elitist attitude you've displayed in your time here.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  5. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Nope, look it up, @Captain X, you are describing something that requires the violation of private property rights. That's not free speech, it just isn't.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  6. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Alternatively, perhaps you are confused, and think I'm defending the European laws Chup has mentioned. I'm not.
  7. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    :rolleyes: I'm describing supporting free speech, which is something you can either do, or not, all on your own. Your choice isn't contingent on anything else, but it does reflect on you.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    No, what I'm arguing against is the idea some idiot liberals and some conservatives during the Bush years used to defend their attacks on free speech, which is that somehow it doesn't count as censorship when they do it - like the government is somehow the only body that can censor.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  9. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    Are you aware that even under the US constitution free speech is not an absolute right?

    You're denigrating my country's laws above, but even your own country has some checks and balances. Yet you want a privately owned board to have absolute free speech. I find that bizarre.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    Yes, but there you're talking about something along the lines of shouting fire in a crowded room or inciting a riot, which is far and away from the kind of hate speech restrictions your country has, and frankly means that your country doesn't truly have free speech. Popular speech does not need protection because it is popular - it's the unpopular speech that proves how "free" the free speech in your country is.

    I guess I'm a bit more liberal than you are when it comes to free speech. :diacanu:
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  11. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    Perhaps you are. I never claimed to be a liberal. You lot only call me one because you judge the world by American political standards.

    Oh, and tell me, when your Mum gets you out of the bed in the morning for work, do you say to her, "I expect absolute free speech in this family", given that you believe in absolute free speech everywhere?
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  12. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    And when you can no longer argue the point, you resort to insults like that. :lol: And you imply I'm the childish one. :rofl:
    • Dumb Dumb x 3
  13. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    It's not an insult. It's making a valid point. Do you demand free speech in the family home, or are there certain things you don't say?
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  14. The Exception

    The Exception The One Who Will Be Administrator Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    21,942
    Ratings:
    +6,317
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  15. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    Where do you think I learned my values from?
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  16. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    So if you call your mother a loathsome cunt and she objects, do you respect her wishes and desire not to hear that language in her house, or do you demand she defends your right to call her the same?
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  17. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    No, he's correctly pointing out that free speech isn't just a constitutionally guaranteed freedom from governmental interference, but also a positive value worth implementing where the law does not require it.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Again, you miss the mark. It doesn't count as censorship when a private institution establishes rules about how it's resources are used. Speech is protected from government intrusion, it's not a license to walk all over somebody's living room carpet in muddy boots.
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  19. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    No. You're describing the law, not the ethical norm.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Okay, sure, and I agree with that. But to borrow from Chup's line, nobody thinks it's okay to walk in to a neighbor's house and call his wife a loathsome cunt. He seems to be arguing for that extreme, and it's not one most would seek to offer or protect.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  21. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    27,298
    Ratings:
    +31,281
    Right, but we're not in someone's living room, we're in a place created for extreme free speech.
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  22. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    No, idiot, I'm asking you if you're pro- or anti-censorship, especially in how this relates to Wordforge. What does Wordforge stand for? I was always under the impression that this place was about free speech, which is part of the reasoning for why it's even called Wordforge!
    • Dumb Dumb x 2
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  23. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    30,961
    Ratings:
    +47,666
    You mean Wordforge? Because I see that claim trotted out now and again, but it doesn't really hold water. I can't repost the contents of PMs without getting banned. I can't post porn without getting banned. I can't post threats against the board without getting banned. I can't reveal other posters personal information without getting banned. I can't be Ted Wolf without getting banned. I can't post about Cleopatra too many times in the Red Room without getting banned. But if I want to throw around "nigger" and "kike" for fun, suddenly Wordforge is committed to extreme free speech? :shrug:
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  24. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    30,961
    Ratings:
    +47,666
    I believe it was originally a forum for writing or writers, before it was taken over by refugees from TNZ. :shrug:
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  25. The Exception

    The Exception The One Who Will Be Administrator Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    21,942
    Ratings:
    +6,317
    Even from day one there were limits on free speech at Wordforge. For example, you weren't allowed to post anything relating to Nazi's or Nazi imagery.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  26. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Okay, I'm for free speech in the public square. And I'm mostly for honest and open talk elsewhere. But I do not extend the right to just do and say everything absolutely in this house. There are exceptions.

    As for the name Wordforge, that's actually a quirk of fate. This board was originally intended to be a writers' workshop. It just happened to be available when we wanted a place to defect to from TrekBBS. To me the name as applied to what the board became evokes the idea of crafty wording, along with a bit of a hot fire.
  27. Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee

    Scott Hamilton Robert E Ron Paul Lee Straight Awesome

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2008
    Messages:
    29,016
    Location:
    TN
    Ratings:
    +14,151
    A forge is actually not for crafting. A forge is use to heat something to extreme temperatures so that it can be molded by getting the piss beat out of it. A forge is a brutal, effective tool.

    Modern steel in a forge comes out fully hardened - ready to cut, but not tempered.

    I like forges.
  28. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    Er no. This place was NEVER created for "extreme" free speech. It was intended to be a version of TNZ with less moderation. A place for heated debate, not a free for all.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  29. El Chup

    El Chup Fuck Trump Deceased Member Git

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    42,875
    Ratings:
    +27,831
    It's called Wordforge because it was originally set up as a writing forum, as Gul says. Plus, why are you calling people idiots in the Help Desk? :chris:

    You want absolute free speech here and that is unrealistic. This forum is a ultimately a service. A place of pleasure. It is somewhere you go for enjoyment and community. It is not a place where you are oppressed. You choose to come here for leisure. You are not at work, in the public or subject to real life laws when you are here where if they are ignored your rights are infringed. That's why you miss the point.

    And please, what do you really think is being discussed here? Wordforge will still be free and open and you personally have nothing to worry about if you don't intend to spew hate speech. We are talking about clear, overt and persistent examples of racism. Not mild remarks here and there. If someone constantly trolls with racist shit then that has to be addressed, as does constant posting of hate bile over and over and over. If they started going after the odd remark here and there then I would agree it's overkill. But the persistent nasty stuff, that is bullshit and you know it. You're basically arguing, for instance, that it should be okay for one of us to post erotic child sex stories in the forum over and over and over because "free speech". Somehow I doubt you'd be complaining if someone were constantly talking about buttfucking a three year old and then such talk was suddenly banned on here. Or would paedo stuff be okay to you as well?
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  30. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    40,826
    Ratings:
    +28,767
    Really it was just supposed to be TNZ without the Lisa changes that's occurred. I can't imagine even 2002 TNZ would tolerate our idea of free speech. Surely even they had tolerable limits?
    • Agree Agree x 6