Lord of the Rings: The Series

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by We Are Borg, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    I haven't seen it but my friend who is obsessed with LOTR and was really stoked for this show says exactly the same thing
  2. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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    E05:

    The elves need mithril to prevent their abrupt fading into shadow or something. Why is this going to happen all of a sudden?
  3. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Well, something is poisoning the tree, and Elrond takes that as evidence that this is true.

    But we know two things - 1) there's no indication that the Elves actually do get Mithril in the movies, and 2) The Elven Realm of Lindon is gone by the 3rd Age.

    My guess is that it will be revealed as a plot point later on how this is happening, and the Three Rings are made specifically as havens for the Noldor in the 3rd age. We know that Lothlorien and Rivendell have a timeless quality about them and are considered a refuge for the High Elves. It is stated openly that this is because of the presence of the Elven Rings, Vilya at Rivendell and Nenya in Lothlorien. Hence Celebrimbor's plan to create the forge now, and the urgency of that action.

    The Sindarin, the Wood Elves, are considered lesser than their brethren, because they are Moriquendi, they always dwelled in Middle Earth and didn't see the light of the Two Trees. Their 'grace' is lesser because of this, they though are still immortal badasses along the lines of Thranduil and Legolas. But they are more naturally attuned to Middle Earth.

    Honestly, all this works inside the lore, and this is why I actually think the writing is pretty damn good. They are coming up with new ideas to fit the lore that Tolkein never filled in. A lot will depend on what exactly the threat that is causing this turns out to be, but the results of this track very well with what Tolkein wrote in the 3rd age.

    So the purists think it's trash because it's not 100% faithful (especially in conceit to sources that they don't have the rights to), and the racists hate it because the concept of 'High Men of the West' have been adopted by the alt-right dipshits (despite the fact Tolkein despised them) and hate it because it shows POC in the 2nd age.

    I like it because I appreciate the lore and appreciate that they are trying to be faithful while also bringing in new ideas and surprises. And the way they are laying out the story is adept.
  4. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    I didn't have a problem with that, but so far I'm finding Isildur's story pretty boring. Of course, we know what role he plays in the end. Of all the arcs that's the only one I don't care about.

    I like Adar as well, and as the Orcs call him father, you are almost certainly correct.

    I expected him to be working with Sauron, as the calling to the Southlands is assumed to come from Sauron. I think we got our first glimpse of Sauron this ep too.

    But looks like that's not the case. As we know Morgoth created the Orcs from tortured Elves in the 1st Age, it could be that Adar was the instrument that Morgoth used to do this. In which case he'd no doubt be a lieutenant of Morgoth's - just like Sauron is. So they could be setting up a rivalry there. That could be a fun storyline.
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  5. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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  6. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    I guess it depends on how you count it. A place named Lindon with the Grey Havens existed, but it was primarily there now only as a destination from which to leave Middle Earth. Your own source says that the realm of Lindon was largely depopulated by this time, between the passing of the Noldor to the West, and the 2nd great flood to hit the Gulf of Lune after the sinking of Numenor (the first being the destruction of Beleriand in the first age).

    By the time of the War of the Ring it clearly did not play any part in the war.

    My intent was that Lindon as the primary home of the Noldor, ruled over by the High King, which was a mighty kingdom and the foremost defender of Middle Earth against Sauron (along with Numenor) was gone. There's plenty of room to fit in the current storyline you were discussing as part of why it passed.
  7. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Episode 6 was the best yet. Mostly because of the principle of "show, don't tell".

    Unless there is a huge misdirection going on it's now clear that
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  8. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    I'd lay odds that isn't right, but it will be fun to find out.

    And the fact they still have us pondering 3/4 through the first season is well written.

    I liked this episode, but not quite as much. I think the writing was fairly lazy getting the two groups together, and it didn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. But other than that it was well written, some very interesting battle scenes, and some good character development.
  9. Zor Prime

    Zor Prime .

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    I don’t think Halbrand is Sauron. I dont’t think Sauron has been introduced yet. Probably in the season finale.

    But I do think Halbrand will become one of the Ringwraiths. It would make sense since he is one of the Kings of Men and since Tolkien never told us the identities of the Nazgul it wouldn’t violate any canon.
  10. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    His story is very closely tracking that of Sauron in the Second Age.
  11. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I'm all caught up with this show and really have no idea what's going on. It's kind of boring.
  12. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I'm even more convinced of my prediction after Episode Seven.
  13. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Really, why so?

    I know there's a leak indicating that Halbrand is Sauron, but if so I can't see it. Maybe it's really good writing, maybe I'm just missing the obvious. Honestly, I don't think there are any great candidates for Sauron in Season 1. Meteor Man would be my guess if it weren't for the fact that the meteor appeared during the opening of the way to the Undying Lands. Pretty sure Morgoth's Lieutenant would not have been welcome there. Though I suppose that could be them banishing him after his capture, but we also know Sauron was active in the North earlier in that age.

    I'm thinking MM is Saruman now. That would make the best story and Saruman did have a connection with the Hobbits in the original. He kept a huge store of Longbottom Leaf at Orthanc, and when he was displaced from there he went to the Shire. And I think watching Saruman as he was, before the fall, would be the most poignant story they could do with that character. Especially if he ends up having an emotional break with the Harfoots at the end of the series.

    The Harfoots are going to have to learn how to survive, and I'm pretty sure this episode was a huge step on their path to becoming the Hobbits we know and love. They are going to have to find shelter. Not too hard to guess where that goes.

    BTW, loved ep 7. I know it's not 100% faithful to Tolkein's vision, and it can't be when they don't have the rights to the Silmarillion. But what they are doing I really love.
  14. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Specifically in Episode Seven, because he's conveniently now off to the elves just as they become desperate to forge what they need to survive having had the solution based on Mithril blocked. He's already shown a peculiar interest in Numernor's forge. In the books, Sauron assisted with creating the Elven Rings, which are what delay the elves leaving Middle Earth until the end of the Third Age.

    Add that to his being a prisoner of Numenor. His subsequent "whispering" to Ar-Pharazon. Gil-galad's prophecy about Galadriel remaining in ME increasing the danger. His relationship and conversations with Adar. His being "King of the Southlands".

    He's basically doing almost all of the stuff that Sauron did in the lore, albeit in a somewhat different order and using a different name. I'm becoming quite confused about what the situation is with regards to IP rights as all of this is from The Silmarillion (I flicked through the relevant chapters recently) but presumably that's why it's not exactly the same.

    I'll add that this plays into the possibility that they're going with the idea of Sauron being "conflicted" between good and evil at this stage, which apparently he was at the beginning of the Second Age. Halbrand is not coming off as pure evil right now, just a bit deceitful.
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2022
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  15. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Probably we should have some agreement or warning on spoilers in this thread. I'll spoiler tag this for now in case anyone hasn't caught up.

  16. StarMan

    StarMan Fresh Meat

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    I am floored. Stunned. Astounded. This is beyond mere entertainment; this was a religious experience. Galadriel is a beautiful, proud, intelligent, brave and stunning character and an inspiration to females all across this not-quite Middle Earth. The intensity of her scenes set lose oceans of emotion in my eyeballs end line.

    Those who say this upends Professor Tolkien's work are right - this masterfully subverts and rearranges the legendarium in such a manner as to not only respect the lore whilst undoing it, but improve upon it. Payne, McKay, Filing Cabinet, Scissors and <fzzzzz> the incredible talent behind this series - !correction - this transcendent poetry in motion, will go down in the anus of television history as the most beautiful, well-acted, superbly crafted and emotionally engaging experience of all-time. Give it to me raw you dirty f-king whore. Believe the hype. This is bigger than Jesus end line.
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  17. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    To steal from @Shirogayne ,
    E8DC0B3B-A41C-4E21-A893-10D2F1509028.jpeg
  18. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    I like most of the storylines going, BUUUUTTTT... :D

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  19. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    This is interesting:

    sauron1.jpg
  20. Rimjob Bob

    Rimjob Bob Sue Collini always gets the weenie

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    E08 SPOILERS:


    Meteor Man as Gandalf tho. That would be a HUGE deviation from the lore, in which the Istari didn’t arrive until the Third Age. Is Gandalf going to fight in the War of the Last Alliance now?


    I hope he turns out to be a blue wizard instead.
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  21. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    I'm still thinking it could be Saruman, they just want us to think it's Gandalf. Granted, I could easily be wrong. But remember when Gandalf the White came and everyone mistook him for Saruman, and the text even says to the effect of the mistake was that this is what Saruman should have been....

    Though he could be a Blue wizard as they are sending him East, and we know ultimately that's where the Blues went.
  22. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Agreed with most of that. The writing has been an issue.

    And no way should Gandalf or Sauruman be around in the Second Age.

    It will be interesting to see where they go with Ar-Pharazon. Given how they're cherry-picking the Sauron story I'm not clear that he'll be going back to Numenor or that there will be another attack on Middle-Earth from that quarter. But they are definitely going with Numenor getting drowned by the Valar, and that only should happen when Ar-Pharazon tries to break the ban on sailing west.

    The thought comes to mind that (apart from the IP rights issue) a lot of thee problems are being created by the need to compress the timeline. But what's the justification for that? To keep the mortal characters around? There aren't even that many of those. They'd have been far better letting things breath and keeping at least some of the many centuries that this stuff is supposed to have taken. The creation of the Elven Rings was supposed to take 90 years, not one afternoon.
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  23. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Just to add that I continue to be impressed by a lot of the production. The Valinor Theme is glorious, as are some of the others.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2022
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  24. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    So did they finally finish walking around all over the place?

    Or is there a season two planned with some jogging?
  25. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    This one was mostly sailing. You'd love it! ;)
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  26. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    One minor quibble - Tolkein contradicted himself about when the Istari show up. It's not mentioned in LotR, the first indication of a time frame for their arrival being in the Silmarillion, which puts that at 1000 TA.

    But in a much later volume in an essay written around 1955 that was included in the Peoples of Middle Earth, Tolkein puts their arrival around 1600 SA, specifically around the time of the forging of the Rings of Power.

    And while the Silmarillion is far better known, this is just a passing reference. In PoME, there an entire chapter on the Istari, the only history of them in any of the books.

    I know which version I would use if I was running a show called the Rings of Power. :)

    Also of note is both of these entries tell us Saruman traveled to the East before his return to the West. The Sea of Rhun is explicitly stated as the East in the last episode, so IMO that's another clue that this guy is Saruman.
  27. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    No, there's still a lot of walking around, but it gets better.
  28. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I haven't read that stuff but I do recall something saying that the Blue Wizards do turn up in the Second Age, with the others in the Third Age.

    I'm starting to think of this series as a somewhat entertaining remix of Tolkien. It's lifting elements of the lore but it isn't actually Tolkien and one should not expect it to be.

    Some of what it is doing with that is very good - specifically the whole debate around the nature of the Orcs and the idea of Sauron having differences with Morgoth and being somewhat repentant. Some of it of course is not so good.
  29. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Worth a watch with some extra perspective, and deals with some of your points, @Demiurge. I don't think Sauron had much of a plan - other than to be left in peace - until Galadriel brought him back into the fold.
  30. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    All caught up. This show sucked and it wasn't because they had a black elf.