What do you want, a list of old white straight guys as villains? How many are necessary? Are we looking for a percentage? Cut the shit. You'll still just dismiss and rationalize it away.
Or maybe you're too much of an ideologically captured fucking coward to ever acknowledge it openly. Can't have anyone thinking you're not of the body.
Okay. Why is TWOK your favorite Trek movie? As for Raoul's question, you don't actually have facts for it. It just "feels" right to you.
I can only speak for me: I am curious why you agree with it. If it's the vibe you get that there are increasing numbers of middle-aged hetero white guys who are portrayed as villains, but don't have any specifics or proof, cool. If there are specific examples of recent old straight white guys that make you think this an up and coming trend, cool. It's my sense that historically most in dramas antagonists are hetero and remain hetero. At a guess, upwards of 95 percent (when we include all people who are not explicitly shown or heavily coded to be gay as hetero) It's my sense that historically most antagonists in dramas are guys and remain guys. At a guess, upwards of 75 percent It's my sense that historically most antagonists are white and remain white. (I'd guess that historically the figure was probably like 80 percent and now it's probably like 50) It's my sense that probably 30 percent of antagonists are in their 40s to early 60s, 60 are in their teens to late 30s, and 5 percent are at either end of the curve. So it doesn't strike me as any big change or revelation that there would be a bunch of villains hitting all those categories. Except for age, they are far and away the majority of characters in dramas.
I don't think there's anything with something just "feeling" right. But just admit: Hey, I can't point to any concrete proof of X, but this is what I believe and why I believe it. I could put forth some hypothesis about why Eccleston believes it or UA believes it, but with UA being here, he can speak for himself.
Middle age or old white guys as villains is fucking ancient because middle age or old white guys also got (and STILL get) a LOT of movie and TV roles. Eccles is acting like this is something new, but isn't calling out all the Imperial officers in the original SW movies, or Boddicker or Jones in Robocop as "woke".
For my agreement, start with Kingpin, Homelander, Doctor Doom and Omni Man, then let me know when everyone is done splitting hairs and rationalizing.
So, all adaptations of existing works. Works ranging from the 1960s to the early 2000s. Where if they made those characters Black, you'd be getting pissy about it too.
My point was that you wouldn't be able to answer because you're incapable of critical thought. And you proved me right.
All I've proven is my unwillingness to engage with an arrogant, bad faith dickbag who thinks his opinions are the only worthy ones.
What? Rowling has used her considerable wealth to lobby against trans rights, and she's been quite successful at it in the UK. https://www.advocate.com/news/jk-rowling-anti-trans-organization Rowling donated £70,000 (roughly $88,200) to the anti-trans group For Women Scotland in 2024 after it lost its challenge to a 2018 Scottish law that legally recognized trans women as women. The group appealed its case to the U.K. Supreme Court, which ruled last month that trans women aren’t considered women under the nation’s Equality Act. Kanye just said some dumb shit that no one in power took seriously.
I don't think it is splitting hairs or rationalizing to talk about how those characters have been around for decades and therefore are not particularly good evidence of an emerging trend. Googling tells me: Kingpin debuted in the comics in 1967. He first appeared in Netflix Daredevil in 2015. Homelander debuted in the comics in 2006, and on Amazon in 2019. Doctor Doom debuted in the comics in 1962. Omni-Man debuted in 2003. I also don't think it to be splitting hairs or rationalizing to point out that these examples all come from the genre of superheroes, which is going to skew even more white, heterosexual, and male than drama as a whole (especially if we're looking at works that are 20+ years old). It also is worth pointing out that in most of their cases, many of their respective protagonists are also middle-aged heterosexual white guys. As of Daredevil Born Again: Matt Murdock is (assuming he's about the same age as his actor) mid-40s and extremely hetero. Butcher is played by a 53-year-old. (I suppose you could talk about the other characters - one young white hetero woman, one young white hetero guy, one white bi guy and a young hetero Asian woman but it's mainly about Butcher vs. Homelander.) Doom's main rival is Reed, who is an older hetero white guy, and secondarily another older hetero white guy in Ben, a younger hetero white guy in Johnny and an older hetero white woman in Sue. Omni-Man has a redemption arc. But the main hero is a half-Asian, half-white young hetero guy. Finally, one could just as easily point to villains who have appeared in the last five years ago who fall out of one or more of the categories of older, white, male. (There are relatively few non-heterosexual villains, probably because there are few non-heterosexual characters, relatively speaking when you are relying on something explicit to identify them as such). They would include such characters as Namor, Kang, Killmonger, Cassandra Nova, the High Evolutionary, the villain from the Marvels, Val de la Fontaine. Several of these are suffered the dreaded race swaps to make them no longer white. I guess the issue I have is probably subtext: the notion that older heterosexual white guys are increasingly being typecast as bad because Woke Hollywood is trying to create a subtext where they equate white/heterosexual/male/older as bad. And when one takes any sort of look at that as an argument, you run smack dab into a whole bunch of issues: 1. There have always been older heterosexual white guys cast as villains along with all other types of characters because much of Hollywood has and continues to focus on older heterosexual white guys, so it's wrong to think of this as some trend. 2. There are plenty of older heterosexual white guys currently being cast as heroes and in other roles now. 3. There are plenty of non-older heterosexual white guys who are also cast as villains of late
He elevated Nick Fuentes. He popularized far-right rhetoric. And his fan base has been far, far more forgiving of him than Rowlings has been of her. I mean, there's room to debate, but Id argue that Rowling never had a photo op with Trump in the Oval Office. West is, for better or worse, extremely influential in the Black community. And he's made inroads into education, fashion, and politics. Rowling's influence seems mostly limited to the UK.
At a glance: Film villains in 2025 1) Ne Zha 2 - Not an older white guy 2) Zootopia 2 - not an older white guy 3) avatar - 1 older white guy 4) Lilo and stitch - Not an older white guy 5) Minecraft - Nope 6) jurassic world rebirth - White, but not old 7) demon slayer - nope 8) How to train your dragon - no 9) f1 - Nope 10) Superman Young white guy, adapted from a character almost 100 years old 11) mission: Impossible - Older Hispanic man 12) Wicked: For Good - Nope 13) fantastic four: Nope 14) Captain America- yes 15) Thunderbolts - no 16) Sinners Yes? If you count the fat KKK guy So, not exactly an overwhelming amount of old white guy villains dominating the box office. Uh-oh, looks like Al's wrong again!
Well, I'd quibble with you about some of those. Wicked: For Good has the Wizard as the main bad guy and I suppose that character can be said to be a 60ish white guy. (I think he's supposed to be younger than Jeff Goldblum's 73 years as Elphaba is college age). Avatar does have the one old white guy, but the new cat lady also needs to be in the running.
True, forgot about the wizard. But, he's also an adaptation of a character who's almost a century old.
It's already been pointed out that Eccleston gave not one single piece of evidence to back up his opinion. Saying "well, that's my opinion" is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for opinions that aren't supported by facts.
(Lubak) Tererun is a horrible person!! Blah , blah, blah, blah... (Me in UA parody mode) Look, I don't have to agree with Tererun on every little thing. Just the UA-gets-pegged-ass-to-mouth stuff! Screw your guilt by association bullshit!
Of course, historically most protagonists in dramas are heterosexual too, and that doesn't make Aunt Alice start whining. Of course, men also commit the vast majority of crimes — representing, for example, about 90% of the people convicted of homicide. So that's not a fiction thing. Likely true, but likely also a reflection of most film and TV roles overall being white. Not sure about that — one thing is that to be an effective antagonist, a character needs to have power, and power tends to increase with age. And, yes — this is what's bound to be the result of any actual analysis (as opposed to white conservatives whining about their hurt feelings).
Seriously, what the hell is your obfuckingsession with my sex life? You and tererun need to get a better hobby. I mean, I’m flattered that you seem to want to use my sex life as some sort of ongoing fantasy in your head, but.. the problem with that is eventually you start intoducing your own desires into them. I’ve no idea what ‘ass to mouth” might be, but you and tererun have fun with that.
