Public loves Obamacare!

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by gul, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    15,318
    Location:
    The Land of Snow and Cold
    Ratings:
    +9,731
    I see someone's been watching Starship Troopers...
  2. Chris

    Chris Cosmic Horror

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    28,946
    Ratings:
    +4,331
    Must be all that rigorous verification that the GOP seems to be on about these days.
  3. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,748
    Ratings:
    +8,142
    Yeah, I'm sure the GOP had tremendous input into this quagmire.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Chris

    Chris Cosmic Horror

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    28,946
    Ratings:
    +4,331
    You mean the quagmire they started and John Boehner refuses to end because he's lost face and can't accept the shame and humiliation of defeat? That quagmire?

    And yes they did. Mitch McConnell negotiated for that point as a part of the Senate's bipartisan deal to end this crisis. You'd know this if you actually cared to know anything about what's going on.
  5. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    Yes, this design flaw has been well known for over a week. Your point?

    Why not? You've been playing that game for years.
  6. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    13,032
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Ratings:
    +8,290
    Complete non sequitor. First of all, this is a public records issue. The only reason to restrict access to the information from the governments end is if you have something to hide. Then you go with a complete swerve about the current funding issues which have what to do with the topic? Come on man, you're better than that.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    :tinfoilhat:
  8. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    30,488
    Ratings:
    +33,931
    yet he doesn't want to register his guns...
  9. faisent

    faisent Coitus ergo sum

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    6,162
    Ratings:
    +1,534
    So hours have passed and maybe we take this up elsewhere. Lets assume, for sake of argument, that I accept your definition (which I don't but that's ok...) All you're basically saying is that Government reserves the right for "legitimate" force; obviously you're not saying Government is the only thing that can do physical things to people, because that would be stupid.

    So what?

    You want to move that "legitimacy" elsewhere? (So either you end up with some other institution as "Government" or you end up in some sort of anarchy...pass on both)
    You want to give each individual powerful shields to resist all "force"? (So nobody can be governed?)
    You want all "legitimacy" removed? (I'd like to hear how...)
    You want to limit that force? (Sure, lets talk, but keep in mind I view almost all concentrations of power as detrimental to individual liberty, and I don't believe a bunch of individuals acting together under whatever name you wish to call them having superior "rights" or "liberties" than a single individual)

    Lastly; I view influence as far worse than force. An individual can be killed by the government easily; a government can easily be influenced to kill millions. If you're worried about individuals stop worrying about what the government can do and worry about how the government can be influenced to do things.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    So let me see if I got the liberal argument right.....

    When someone saves money or gets better insurance plan, it's because of ACA.
    When someone sees their plan reduced and/or pays more, it's the fault of employers or republicans.

    Got to hand it to you guys. You always leave yourselves a back door. :techman:
    • Agree Agree x 2
  11. faisent

    faisent Coitus ergo sum

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    6,162
    Ratings:
    +1,534
    In my "liberal" (re: centrist) opinion, Health Care has been an issue in this country for decades and will only become more of an issue as life-lengthening procedures are developed over the coming decades. Something needed to be done to change the way the system currently works; the Democrats came up with a plan that the Republicans have been fighting tooth an nail. The Republicans never really came up with a coherent plan that could address the concerns of the public; nor did they really try to help really guide the creation of the ACA.

    I also fault large insurers looking at their yearly earnings. They're going to charge more and adjust coverage based on perceptions of the healthcare market and the possibility that they'll earn less while things are in a state of flux. So there's the underlying Capitalism in the mix as well. (not that I fault Capitalism; this is by design)
  12. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,748
    Ratings:
    +8,142
    :bailey:
  13. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    59,487
    Ratings:
    +48,916
    I'd have to ask you which nations. Because you're right that it works in some but not others, so cite me a specific example and we can compare. Otherwise it sounds as if you think Americans aren't as smart as those nations that do make it work.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    Bullshit. Bush passed his prescription drug plan while in office and fought to reform social security. During the health care debate in 2009-2010 republicans offered plans that were dead on arrival thanks to the Democrat majority in Congress. You can't expect bipartisanship when you shut your opponent out of the process and rub their noses in it ever chance you get.

    Like in all things Capitalism, they have to adjust to all the new rules thanks to insurance having to cover more than it used to. Unfortunately, money doesn't grow on trees and resources are scarce even for large companies. Hence many employee health care plans charging more than they use to.

    Again, Dems wrote this law, Dems passed this law,and Dems fought for it all the way to the US Supreme Court. They own this turd. All praise or blame for it belongs to them. No one else.
  15. faisent

    faisent Coitus ergo sum

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    6,162
    Ratings:
    +1,534
    Nothing you've said refutes anything I said; perhaps you should re-read it; perhaps you're too stupid to understand. Either way, you're still just babbling. The Republicans never did (and still haven't) come up with a plan that addresses the concerns of the public, and "reforming" social security to use it as a infusion of cash to the money market was ridiculous from the get go. The Republicans shut themselves out; saying any differently is really revisionist at best and an outright lie at worst. From you I assume the latter...or pure ignorance.

    Fair enough. If it turns out to be beneficial for more people that it hurts I'll kindly be asking you to suck my cock.
  16. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    Well known Republican alternative for those who don't suck Obama's dick on a regular basis...


    You were just pointing fingers blaming Republicans for Obamacare not being better. Don't get your panties in a bunch when you're called on it Mr. "Centrist." :shrug:
  17. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    More inconvenient truths about the public and Obamacare...

    This is my personal favorite....

    This was after being told time and again that the public would get to keep their plans if they liked them. Can't wait to see how this mess looks next year. Only question I have is will Dems be man enough to own this or try the usual tactic of pointing fingers at its failures. I'm betting on the latter.:techman:
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,748
    Ratings:
    +8,142
    I'm sure they'll find a way to blame Bush. I'm only half joking. In earnest, they'll probably blame what little choice has been left to the private sector and use that as an excuse to further nationalize the industry rather than let go of the power they've seized.
  19. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    30,488
    Ratings:
    +33,931
    When did fraud become the lesser of two evils in Libertopia? I was always under the impression that the two were almost interchangeable as both meant to deprive another?

    Gets me wondering where you stand on extortion?
  20. John Castle

    John Castle Banned Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2011
    Messages:
    21,748
    Ratings:
    +8,142
    "Libertopia"? Seriously? Tell you what -- when you question why the government doesn't have the perfect answer to every social ill, I'll entertain your questions as to why a philosophy that has the goal of maximizing personal freedom doesn't have the perfect answer to every social ill.

    People don't end up deprived of life or liberty by fraud, only property. So, yes, fraud is a serious evil, but it is the lesser evil of the two.

    Extortion is deprivation of property through threat of force. Hey... that'd be kinda like taxation, wouldn't it?
  21. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    30,488
    Ratings:
    +33,931
    Not up to me to come up with that perfect answer... I've never claimed it as being remotely near the truth.

    How do you justify devaluation of labour as anything but fraud?
  22. NeonMosfet

    NeonMosfet Probably a Dual

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,265
    Ratings:
    +1,170
    I'm covered. Got my letter from the VA.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  23. frontline

    frontline Hedonistic Glutton Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Messages:
    13,032
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Ratings:
    +8,290
    What's your experience with the VA. So far it's been a mixed bag. Months long waits for appointments, some of the staff are great, others you can tell are hiding out in a government job.
  24. gul

    gul Revolting Beer Drinker Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Messages:
    52,375
    Location:
    Boston
    Ratings:
    +42,367
    From what I hear, there is tremendous variation from one facility to the next, I have a friend in California who swears by the VA, and thinks the whole country should be so lucky as to receive the care he gets. Similarly, my sister did a rotation at a VA during her residency and has said that the model is far better for continuity of care. But then you hear those horror stories.
  25. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    8,467
    Ratings:
    +9,513
    Pretty much my experience. It's a nightmare when first being processed because the building is huge and no one on staff seems to know anything outside their own office. Once I was processed into the system and given my primary doctor it got better.
  26. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    Good news! You can apply for your Iraq refund via my website! Once I fix the login glitch.....the last three people applying ended up owing me 450 dollars a month for 20 years.
  27. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    81,024
    Location:
    front and center
    Ratings:
    +29,958
    The VA here in Augusta is top-notch. I rarely use it, but in the years to come who knows what ailment await me? Then again almost all the medical care in Augusta is good, so they can't be the black sheep of the bunch without drawing a lot of negative attention.
  28. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    37,536
    Location:
    Land of fruit & nuts.
    Ratings:
    +19,361
    I honestly never even bothered to register with the VA. I probably should.
  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,473
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +57,866
    Yeah, my wife keeps nagging me to go and get my hip/lower back and GI issues looked at.

    I'm not a fan of doctors in general. If I can go a few more years without having to go see one I will. :shrug: