personally I don't think sending somebody to prison for ten years is a fair sentence, but that said I do consider an abortion the murder of a human being. It's not self defense obviously, but it is the premeditated killing of a defenseless human being. Yes, it's a developing human, like it or not. Guarantee in about nine months that tiny human (not a meerkat, not a fox, not a javelina) would draw it's first of many breaths if it's not deliberately killed. I've got kids and grandkids to back up my theory so I think I may be on to something here. Just my 2 cents. BTW it's not just "red voters" who aren't fans of abortion as I'm sure you know, but don't want to admit. Tell me I'm wrong on that subject.
So does this same standard apply to the embryos that get thrown away at fertility clinics? The "pro-lifers" never seem to be particularly interested in policing that.
Jesus Christ. I'm just shocked and saddened your moronic genes have passed down to a third generation. Idiocracy, here we come.
Are you referring to black voters who lean into most of the right's stupid religious dogmas? I don't see too many of them picketing Planned Parenthood or making it their life's work to end abortion just because they don't agree with it. And I'm happy to tell each and every one of them to sit on it and spin too if they agree with any of these draconian measures. In the end, it's gonna be black and brown birth givers getting punished while the daughters of rich white men fuck off for a trip to Los Angeles for an abortion.
Years back the “pro-lifers” would scoff at the idea that women would be sent to prison for obtaining an abortion. Now we find out that was the plan all along. You also have the issue of silence equaling acceptance. The Susan Collins of the world issue mealy-mouthed statements whenever new abortion restrictions get passed by male-dominated legislatures. Margaret Atwood was really onto something back in the 80s.
Always amazes me that the right constantly say that the Dems will take guns and religion from folk, and yet it never happens. Whereas the Dems say the GOP will try to outlaw abortion, reverse gay rights and disenfranchise voters... and that absolutely happens. OF would say both sides try to demonise the other, but only one side is ACTUALLY DOING THE SHIT THE OTHER SIDE SAID THEY WOULD.
So since you think of abortion as murder, why is it not fair to send someone to prison who commits an abortion or has one for 10 years? That is a relatively light sentence for murder. What do you think would be a fair sentence for having and abortion, or for committing one? A year in prison? 5?
I mean, I don't expect him to say, "Oh, actually, now that you've pointed out that following my logic to its natural extreme, abortion doctors are serial killers of the highest order and should get the death penalty for their crimes, and 16 year olds who have abortions should receive the same sentence as a mother who strangles their 2 year old because murder is murder." But he may yet have something interesting to say. Or he may not.
On a similar tangent, this thought experiment might have been brought up here in our millions of abortion debates over the years, but it bears repeating. From the author Patrick Tomlinson:
The answer is D, get the fuck out of there and don't save either. Young humans are only important if they're inside a uterus. Those embryos aren't inside a uterus, so they don't count. As for the child, he is also not inside a uterus and should use his bootstraps to get out of the fire instead of looking for handouts.
I think making them attend & witness autopsies and funerals of young children who got murdered would be in the ballpark. Also have them speak to a large group of people (physically gathered together, no "zoom" virtual bullshit) about their experiences seeing these things, with a question and answer session at the end. It might be educational as well as punitive. Just my 2 cents.
Actually about 40-45% of fertilized eggs don't live to term, regardless of abortion. But that just makes the fundies minds turn off because why would God kill so many babies?
So to be clear, are you saying that someone who gets an abortion or performs an abortion should be: 1. Convicted of murder and 2. Not have any prison time but 3. Be forced to watch the funerals and autopsies of children (just fetuses?) and to speak to others about the evils of abortion?
let me clear up #3 - be forced to watch funerals & autopsies of young children who are murdered. Just to drive the point home that this is what happens when somebody willfully choose to terminate a young human life before they've even had a chance to experience life. And no lectures about the evils of abortion - just sharing their opinions on abortion with a new sense of perspective. They may come to approve of abortion even more after their mandatory viewings - or they may not view abortion favorably after that - who knows? But hey, just admit that it's not just "a bunch of cells" - they are choosing to kill a baby....it's their decision, own it! I don't make or enforce the laws, so this is just my personal take on it. Your mileage may vary.
Understand, the implications of this go FAR beyond abortion. What was established tonight is two things which, as if our future were not already in deep enough trouble, are fatal poisons to our system: 1. SCOTUS is bound by nothing and is no effectively a Super Legislature that can do ANYTHING with five votes. 2. There's a blueprint to hacking the court system, providing an avenue for state legislatures to do what they want and rig it so that the courts have no handhold to act against them. Look for a wave of Vigilante Litigator laws not just cloning this bill regarding abortions (in a year you'll have as many as 25 states with their own version) but also employing the tactic to go after other goals - trans people in the restroom? Step right up and claim your $10k bounty! Your kids middle school teacher mentions the existence of racism? Take em to court for promoting CRT! Let your imagination run wild, it won't be as extreme as what the Reactionary Christofascists can come up with. Take it all in here (including the scathing dissents) https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/...SSLm-5UTAV89cFFtLsVIlaSlMDr0-RNO2s_1KR0o9NnvE
Since judicial review was established in what, 1837, it's been the case that SCOTUS was effectively a Super Legislature that can do ANYTHING the majority wants. And while there is little doubt that the current lineup would eventually overturn Roe, this supposed blueprint to hacking the court system doesn't seem like it would work particularly well across the board. District court judges and appellate judges and state court judges would likely issue temporary injunctions against copycats even in the short term. And in the long-term, it doesn't seem likely that the Texas anti-abortion law will stand. SCOTUS refusing to intervene now isn't quite the same thing as endorsing this tactic forever. TLDR: it's obviously bad, but IMO not as dire as Nova makes it sound.
The dems could have been smart and positioned themselves with a law that copied the method and allowed for the civil bounty hunting of people not getting vaccinated. They should have had a number of similar laws written to use these methods in ways that triggered the republicans to fight against their own law. The right wing justices know that they will have to take this shit up eventually, and they know they will shoot it down. They are just opening up a time where they can let it happen without interference. If they actually thought they could make this law constitutional and allow it they would have heard the case and decided on it while they have the numbers. Instead they merely put it off while not stopping it from taking effect. Yes, that is a horrible thing to do, and it means they are consciously harming people while they can delay things. However, it does seem to indicate they already know their decision is against the law because why delay it being decided constitutional if they thought they could get away with it? Now is time to expedite the explosion and need for a decision, and to fight fire with fire until they make a decision that this fire is wrong.
So as I assume this just allows for damage while they avoid a decision that they know will shoot down this method and the time period? I get why the drama needs to be done to get people out there to protest, and that they have opened a c8an of worms that can be used to harm lots of other people, but it is not the end as you say. The other side can use this weapon also. Fuck around with their penis enlargement procedures and see how fast this shit falls. The left has got to learn how to play this game. If you want to cheat and play without rules, then we all cheat until you want to go back to enforcing the rules. I used to love it on the paintball field when idiots stopped wanting to go out. I am used to being in the battle for the things I want. I am trans and I grew up having to fight against the medical community for treatment and surgery. The women out there are used to fighting white christian men for their health care. Now make them fight for their own healthcare. Hurt them, and make them scream. You find a lot of these right wing wussies do not want to play until the pain. They are not the Taliban. They are spoiled, flabby, little pissbabies.
Yeah, while I strongly disagree with what's going on in this case, I'm not aware that anything has fundamentally changed regarding this particular point.
