Should intelligence be withheld from a sitting President?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Federal Farmer, Feb 16, 2017 at 3:49 PM.

  1. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer The Last Jedi

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    If this is true, it's pretty fucked up. I don't care about your political beliefs, the President should have any and all available intelligence as possible in order to make informed decisions.
    http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...nce-officials-withhold-information-from-trump
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  2. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    All enemies, foreign and domestic. If that includes the President, or the President is likely to leak it to the foreign enemies, so be it. :shrug:

    You wouldn't be upset if Clinton had been elected and they didn't want to send intelligence to her email for the same reason. The Trump administration's collective's mouths are as leaky as that.
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  3. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Yeah bit of a gray area that doesn't have a definitive yes or no anwer - of course any head of state should be given any and all intelligence, however if their office is compromised then it's up to intelligence agencies not to facilitate a leak to foreign enemies.
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  4. Aurora

    Aurora Vincerò!

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    You know... POTUS doesn't have security clearance. There is no screening, no polygraph, no probes up his butt and Putin isn't interviewed as a character witness. On the other hand, the office grants him unrestricted access to everything.

    Given Trump, I'm not surprised they don't bring that everything to him willingly. He'll likely tweet it the second he gets it just to brag. I'm pretty sure they're keeping him on a need to know basis. Can't blame them.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 4:24 PM
  5. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    No. That said if anyone has evidence of political operatives damaging national security then they should become a whistle blower immediately.
  6. Zor Prime

    Zor Prime .

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    Why is it so hard for Trump to just come out with a forceful statement regarding his relationship with Putin?

    He could easily end this whole controversy with a few words. Just state clearly that he has no special involvement with Russia and plans to hold them accountable if they break any treaties or make any aggressive moves.

    And why can't he acknowledge that Putin is a thug and despot? He'll quickly go off on everyone from SNL to Meryl Streep to Nordstroms but never a single criticism of Putin? Why?

    I agree that the POTUS should get all available intelligence... but he isn't helping matters one bit. He needs to build back the trust between his office and the intelligence community. Instead of criticizing them and dismissing their findings, he should sit down and work with them. And he needs to fire Steve Bannon ASAP. I'm sure he is a large part of the problem.
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  7. Anna

    Anna Here for the Lulz Formerly Important

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    All I know is I wish for the B613 in Scandal* to exist in some manner in RL.

    *or Section 31 for ya nerds. :nyer:
  8. Nono

    Nono Fresh Meat

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    For all sorts of reasons this doesn't sound convincing. Apart from anything else, who would believe such a claim? Not yours truly. Wasn't Donald contradicting himself about every four-and-a-half minutes on the campaign trail? Then denying that he'd said something even after many millions had seen and heard him say it?

    And here's hoping someone's going to hold the US accountable if it breaks any treaties or makes any aggressive moves. That would make for a nice change.

    Also, the pres's daily intelligence briefing has always been a summary, for obvious reasons. So what goes in and what stays out has always been a matter of sifting and weighing the incredibly huge mass of info.

    I'm sure Donald ain't the first pres to have stuff withheld from him. And since when did Dubbya need intelligence? (Well, he needed intelligence ...) The sorry twit just made up his "facts" as he went along.
    Donald will do likewise.
  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    Perhaps it is unwise to publicly criticize the leader of a nation that

    1) Has one of the largest nuclear arsenals in the world.
    2) Has conventional superiority currently over U.S. and allied forces available on hand in Eastern Europe.
    3) Actually spends some time fighting Muslim extremists in Syria that the U.S. targets as well.

    Those seem like very good reasons. But what do I know.

    Perhaps you are on my side and think we should militarily humble the Russians in the near future should an opportunity arise.

    If so, welcome aboard.
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  10. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer The Last Jedi

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    But apparently these are holdovers from the Obama administration, so they're probably trying to undermine Trump, so they clearly aren't concerned about national security.
  11. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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    This is just me but I think Bannon is behind the leaks. I believe it is someone really in the know and wants to eliminate some people in the administration for their own agenda.
  12. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    You have no idea if that's what's happening. "Clearly" :lol:

    I'm only speaking about a hypothetical situation.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 7:05 PM
  13. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    I think intelligence was already withheld from Trump at conception. He's beyond help.
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  14. garamet

    garamet !

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    Between profound dyslexia "I can't read this, I don't have my glasses" [said of a court document in which he was the plaintiff, where his attorney was begging him not to speak, and when have we ever seen him wear glasses?], prediagonised ADHD [a normal person doesn't tweet about Nordstrom's during a security briefing], and narcissistic personality disorder, I'd say that ship has sailed.

    Flasher, as an expert on all of these syndromes, will now use this as an excuse to diss me and defend his hero :hail: Der Drumpfenführer.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017 at 10:00 PM
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  15. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

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    I'm sure every president didn't get all the intelligence available. Presidents come-and-go but the intelligence experts have been doing this for a long, long time so I'm sure they are very careful with what they share - I can't blame them either! They have the "big picture" and a new president might not be ready for all of it.
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  16. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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  17. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    Trump seems a bit like Nixon, in that he trusts no one except a select few. Outside of a handful of confidants, like Bannon for example, everyone else is a potential enemy looking to usurp his authority.

    Be wary of sites like The Daily Beast. They sensationalize, and often do not cite their sources. On the occasion that they are reporting a genuine story, they also like to punch it up with plenty of misdirection to keep you reading.
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  18. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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  19. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    Reince Priebus.

    Sounds like a Star Wars character name.
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  20. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Get Sleazy.

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    1. Trump has shown to have little regard for the intelligence briefings he's received. If anyone in the White House is using that information, it's not him.

    2. Shouldn't all intelligence be distributed on a "need to know" basis, even at the highest levels? No modern president is going to be planning a military campaign or an intelligence strategy right down to the smallest detail. Does Trump really need to know the exact location of every US ship, or the personal details of every undercover agent operating in Europe? So long as these omissions aren't deliberately misleading him, I support playing it safe.
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  21. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    Plus, he's a fucking idiot. It would be like handing a loaded gun to a kid and saying "now don't pull the trigger, Timmy, or you'll have more power than you've ever dreamed right at your fingertips."
  22. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer The Last Jedi

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    Doesn't matter, like it or not, he's the President.
  23. tafkats

    tafkats So much goddess Moderator

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    "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this ... umm, sorry, Dayton says this speech would be unwise."
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  24. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    Yes, it does matter. The President's power does not go unchecked. If he seems to be a serious security risk, then information will be held from him. In this case, Donald is the ultimate security risk, as he'd have no issue bragging about all the best secrets he gets to hear every day, and then you watch as he starts tweeting clues about them. Don't think he wouldn't do it, you know he would. The people in charge of national security would be insane to allow him access to everything.
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  25. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

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    Totally agree. But there is an interesting fact here that Briebart did put out a hit piece on Priebus and Bannon is still connected to the paper.
  26. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    When President Reagan made that speech, the U.S. had spent nearly a decade rearming. The Soviets did not have any massive conventional superiority in Europe.

    Nor were they fighting Muslim extremists. Though IIRC at one of their summit meetings, Reagan did warn Gorbachev about the coming threat of Muslim terrorism.
  27. matthunter

    matthunter Magical Truthsaying Bastard

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    More like instructions for men's sexual health. Unless you're circumised, in which you don't need to bother.
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  28. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

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    The President is the top of the chain of command for the intelligence community, just like he is for the military. And for that matter, the entire government. Congress passes laws and approves budgets, but the President is the Chief Executive.

    That said, intelligence officers take an oath similar to that of the military, in which they assert that their loyalty is to the Constitution, not to the President. So while the President can order that he receive "all" available intel, in practice I don't believe that has ever happened with any President.
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  29. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    The President should receive all intelligence at all times.

    If the President is failing in his duties as President than it is the responsibility of Congress to deal with it. If Congress won't deal with it than the people will in the next election.

    It is not the job of government employees to check the President. I don't remember seeing that part in the Constitution. Especially given that government employees often do not have the whole picture of what's going on regarding foreign policy. (Oldfella you're wrong there.)

    What happens when some idiot withholds intelligence and by withholding it Trump makes a decision that eventually leads America into a shooting war where if he had the information he would have decided otherwise?

    Some of you non-lefties need to put your disgust for Trump to the side and think rationally on this. We as a country do not want government employees making decisions that could prevent duly-elected officials and their appointed officials from having information in order to make decisions which will impact America for good or bad.

    Right now the only people leaking in the Trump administration are the career government employees hired that were in place before Trump became POTUS.

    It wasn't Trump or his people who leaked those phone calls to other world leaders. Nor was it Trump or his people who leaked on Flynn.
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  30. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer The Last Jedi

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    Agreed 100%. :techman: