Should intelligence be withheld from a sitting President?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Federal Farmer, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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  2. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. If the intelligence community feels that it's too great a risk to give Trump some details then the greater good comes first.
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  3. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    That, and Presidents leave office after 4/8 years, so once they're out, there are things they may no longer give a shit blabbering about if it makes them look good. Trump seems to be the kind of guy who would brag about some of the stuff he knew while in office, while trying to impress a woman at the bar. State secrets + braggart = Potential catastrophe.
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  4. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    It's not their job to decide the greater good.

    And who decides what is the greater good?
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  5. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    Who would be stump fuckingly stupid enough to give highly sensitive, critical information to a man who can't keep his mouth shut, especially a man like Donald Trump? The man had an emergency briefing at Mar-a-Lago, with very much non-cleared citizens sitting around as it unfolded. If I'm the man tasked with handing him sensitive information that would mean the difference between life and death for millions of people if leaked, he can just fucking go without.
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  6. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    You fucking idiot.

    To damn stupid to see how dangerous it is that un-elected bureaucrats are making decisions on what information to give a sitting President.
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  7. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    People who think like me are why people like you aren't ashes thanks to smoking craters in the earth, because we have the foresight and contextual awareness necessary to prevent shortsighted people from approving the end of their way of life. Babble on all you want, I'm not the one willing to hand over sensitive data to a demagogue with an ego that is both a national security risk, and a foreign policy nightmare. You think whatever you like.
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  8. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM perpetually sondering

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    You implying you want Trump to decide?

    Because he's always going to put a little good for Donald J. Trump ahead of a lot of good for all those Americans who aren't Donald J. Trump.

    What, do elected bureaucrats get a brain upgrade when they take office?
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  9. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    Can you provide actual real world examples of this happening?
  10. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Hypothetical:

    You are an intelligence official.

    You come across evidence that could support Trump having undisclosed connections to a foreign power.

    You also ascertain that if he became aware of the evidence, he could take steps to destroy further evidence.

    You now have two choices.

    1. Tell him, and in doing so potentially assist in covering up a conspiracy.

    2. Don't tell him, and in doing so make a decision for "...the greater good...".

    Which one do you choose?

    Please note I'm not suggesting this is what actually happened.
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  11. Anna

    Anna Here for the Lulz Formerly Important

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    Cuban missile crisis, "teacher" :dayton:

    Also, the whole Cold War.
  12. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

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    What intelligence information was withheld from President Kennedy during the Cuban Missile Crisis? Or withheld from any major U.S. decision maker?
  13. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Obviously in this case you leak it.

    Idiot.
  14. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    That's your opinion.

    It doesn't matter what you think of Trump. He is the President of the United States and withholding intelligence information from him can be dangerous.

    Let's take North Korea. You've got information that North Korea is going to attack if the US does X but because you think you're smarter than Trump and you're afraid to give him that information because you think he will do X you withhold the intelligence.

    Now the US does X. Not on purpose either but simply because they didn't know any better whereas if they knew than we might not have done X.

    Of course not but in our system it is the elected officials that make the decisions. Not un-elected bureaucrats who might not even have the whole picture of what is going on.
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  15. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    Oh yes it is. If they have sensitive information that could turn out to be a major embarrassment for the country and you have a vindictive loud mouth for a president who railroads you in the press you better believe that info is staying silent. Don't like it? Too bad. That's what you get for being a dick.
    The people who have that information gets to decide. So if this president wants them to start sharing he needs to change his attitude and start learning to work with people.
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  16. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    No it is not the job of government employees to decide what is the greater good for the country.
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  17. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Isn't the president a "government employee"? Aren't members of the military?
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  18. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Umm...

    Also I clearly misunderstood this post from you:

    I took this as you meaning that leaks were wrong.
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  19. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Leaks are wrong but if you've got honest to God evidence of a president law breaking and you know letting him know about will cause him to squash it than yes you should leak. Be a whistleblower.
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  20. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    So sometimes they should have to consider the greater good.
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  21. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    99.99% of the time you do your damn job.

    If you have that .01% that's different than yes you can consider the greater good.

    Stop being a dumb fuck about it.
  22. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM perpetually sondering

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    Okay, then I think we're on the same page. :)
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  23. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    So basically "they should share everything, unless they believe it to be something it would be genuinely dangerous for him to know".

    Like NAHTMMM said, seems we are all on the same page. :)
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  24. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    I highly doubt you have the skills to go from Wal-Mart greeter to a position of responsibility.
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  25. John

    John Snuggle Princess

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    Indeed, it seems this issue has been resolved rather handily.
  26. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Your scenario is about someone having intelligence that Trump broke the law by having secret connections to a foreign government.

    Under that tiny limited scenario I would support a person being a whistleblower.

    So we are not on the same page if you think I support some jackass withholding intelligence from Trump because they think Trump will make the wrong decision.

    You're throwing a scenario out there and than trying to stretch my answer to cover things not in your scenario.
  27. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    No, I'm making the point that making blanket statements about something like this is stupid.

    Generally yes, he's the president and you can't have the IC trying to sidestep him, that's halfway to a coup which would be much worse than Trump. However you were the one making blanket statements that it shouldn't ever happen.
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  28. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    No. You're being a typical leftist cunt.

    You'd be screaming bloody murder if some bastard was withholding intelligence from Hillary because of her email issues. You'd be right to scream about it too. If she's POTUS she also needs the intelligence and it is not the job of some pissy-ass government employee who probably doesn't have the whole picture of what is going on to decide if a sitting president should or should not get a particular piece of intelligence.