Star Wars Episode VII - The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)

That Mace Windu line always bothered me, too. I choose to interpret it as meaning "left [in the temple]," as many have been assigned to activities far from the core. The EU books allude to this somewhat -- Darth Sidious has the Jedi chasing their collective tails all over the galaxy. But the movies do not provide this context, only instead providing a few vague statements about the Jedi force sensitivity being "clouded".

So the interpretation is that yes, they are weak. They have been manipulated in to dispersal, and they have lost some of their abilities, all due to mysterious dark forces not completely revealed. But as I said, the movies don't do enough to make that case, and this probably is the biggest flaw in the PT.

This is terifically untrue.

Another perfect example of how Lucas went back and totally fucked up his own universe! The prequels destroyed the mythos set up in the OT with midichlorians and moronic changes to the history of that universe. It was stupid decision after stupid decision.

Fuck the PT. Every copy should be burned and erased from memory.

I never got the entire idea behind "force generated by little critters in the bloodstream".

Some say that Lucas copied this idea from Timothy Zahn in "Heir to the Empire" where he had "small sloth like creatures can nullify the force".

In other words, turning the Force from the metaphysical realm to something with a strict biological cause.

I do think part of this all grew out of how Darth Vader (and the Emperors) powers over the Force were portrayed in both The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

The "Force" basically grew from something that you could do a handful of tricks with (choking someone, aid in targeting, body disappearing when killed) to an all powerful ability telepathic, telekinetic and everything else.

The way the Force was shown used in the latter two movies, there was no real reason for Vader or the Emperor to need anyone else.

Statistically speaking, no one in China even KNEW about tank man to even forget about him in the first place. If they didn't actually see it happen that day, they never heard about it. It was forbidden to disseminate in the media, and no world wide web back then either.

I kinda like that it's out there.
It's Lucas's folly. It humbles him, makes him human.

If he hadn't made them, Star Wars would be his unfinished masterpiece, and he'd still be a living god, and eventually, in death, an artistic martyr.
That's a bubble that sorely needed popping.

Not just Lucas, but Star Wars itself.
People have been scared of Star Wars, and that pedestal needed tipping over too.

Marvel has been eating SW's lunch lately.
That's a good thing for us fans.

Yet Marvel is owned by Disney, and Lucasfilm is now also owned by Disney. If they can do for Lucasfilm what they did for Marvel, I have high hopes indeed.

Iron Man 2 agrees!

Iron Man 2 wasn't half bad. It fails only in comparison to the other Marvel productions (and even then, it's still superior to most of the Hulk attempts).

I liked the Hulks.

The only flaw they had, was in not having the balls to put the faith in the character they did with the other MCU characters, and dip more into the comics history, and go all out.
But, if you go all out with Hulk, the villains he fights in the comics...the Chitauri invasion is just Wednesday for him.
Comes down to money.

Yeah, Iron Man 2 is by no means a bad film. It's just not nearly as good as Iron Man was; our expectations were set pretty high.

And I liked both Hulk films too though, truth to tell, I prefer the Ang Lee/Eric Bana version even with its weak ending. (The scene where Hulk, having just wrecked a good bit of San Francisco, sees Betty, calms down, and turns back into Bruce Banner is one of my favorite comic film moments of all time.)

If they can find a Kevin Feige for Star Wars it just might work. They need a mastermind. They also need somebody who forcibly removes ol' George should he decide to offer input.

That being said, this thread made me rewatch AOTC and ROTS (never, ever TPM again). Haven't seen them in a long time. They are actually not half bad for what they are. As I remembered, rough edges in editing, Hayden and a few stupidities but those can be overlooked. What I did notice is how Lucas doesn't seem to have a feeling for really fine images. He seems more interested in cramming in as much CGI as possible. Like, in AOTC that great scene in the arena when all the lightsabers suddenly turn on in the audience - just a fleeting moment. That was worth a few seconds of lingering (or did the bad, bad editing trounce that scene?). Also, in ROTS, the Order 66 scenes are bloody great. Finally some really alien surroundings, very emotional, as is Anakin walking with all the clone troops to wipe out the temple. Whoosh, over in a second. But he will show minutes of air traffic in the capital

I'd really like to see a cutting room floor edition of those movies.

There is actually a different version of AOTC, that was a later release for IMAX. Due to format requirements, a fair amount of the fluff was cut (like the 15 minutes of Padme and Anakin frolicking in Naboo's lake country). I don't know whether they compensated by re-inserting other elements, but the final effect was quite pleasing. Overall, it made for a much tighter and enjoyable film.

Awesome new character in Episode VII... click spoiler tag for pic. Could be the next Sith!

Well, one piece of practical info that reveals.
Luke will have a beard in the flick.

As a wise Jedi elder, I'd think it sould be mandatory.

An interesting read that I don't think I ever got around to posting here

That's a good read. I've read a few similar analyses, but none so detailed. It certainly covers a lot of what I enjoy about Star Wars. The thing about the colors is definitely an important element to understanding Lucas' message. But I think Lucas did more than simply create something that is visually stunning. He provided enough bones for other art forms to hang off of his body. Note the way Zahn is able to similarly capture the magic of that universe in written form, where there is no color at all. His novels are every bit as relevant and highly complimentary to the films. So it's not that visual is all there is, but that's definitely the most impactful element of the films.

There are some very good elements of AotC that are grey and I think the prequels get a worse rep than deserved. That being said, I hope that episode 7 is closer to the original trilogy.

See, that's the expectation. I really hope the new films will subvert those expectations.

We EXPECT Luke to be kinda the new Yoda, the master of a new Jedi order. EVEN IF novels had never been written along those lines, it's what we'd expect because it's the logical--read: obvious--progression from where the films left off.

But what if he ISN'T? What if Luke had struggles with the Dark Side and finally became a recluse a la Ben Kenobi?

It's like our expectation that Han and Leia will be married and have grown children (this appears to be the case). What if they aren't/don't? What if they WERE married but divorced some years earlier?

What if the characters from the OT *DIDN'T* live happily ever after?

Y'think Lucas is that creative?
I mean, new people are writing the scripts, but he laid out the outlines.
Look at Crystal Skull. Did that have any twists or subversions?

I bet your never saw that bit about surviving a nuke in a fridge coming! And you can't say that it didn't subvert the laws of physics! Because it did!

To Aurora, since this phone makes editing a pain in the ass:

The acting in the PT can be attributed to Lucas's meddling, too. Considering all the yes men he's surrounded by, I doubt any of the actors' personal touches made it into the final cut.

As a comparision, the famous exchange in Empire with Leia and Han when she confesses she loves him and Han replies "I know" was added by Harrison Ford because he thought that was a more Han Solo type response. The rest is history. Guess who didn't direct that film?

And it took a zillion takes for them to come to it.
Lucas never had the patience for that sort of thing.

Well, it is well known that Lucas loathes working with actors and much prefers the technical aspects of directing.

What does the phrase "under construction" bring to mind?

The continual state of George Lucas's creations........

I saw it in IMAX. They did not reinsert other elements; they just cut out the horseshit. Wasn't a half-bad movie.

Of course, that version will never see the light of day again.