Cars flee Target parking lots to hang out at Walmart! The link is to a Breitbart article, so yeah, source is questionable at best. Is the data accurate? Is car counting the best way to assess sales, for example? And as the article points out, Walmart is in the process of reinventing itself to be more customer friendly. To what extent is that the issue compared to bathroom politics? Nevertheless, an interesting question arises. What if the changing fortunes of the respective stores are indeed tied to bathroom policies? If that is the case, what is the best choice for a business? Discriminate against a minority, or accept lower sales in exchange for fewer assholes? Side question, maybe @Nova can answer this, but I had thought Walmart also had pro-transgender bathroom policies. If so, are these people supposedly voting with their feet even bigger fools than we realized? Discuss!
You're presenting a false choice.Most people realize that forcing men and women to use their own bathrooms is not discrimination. The people boycotting target have a legitmate reason for not wanting to have their children share bathrooms with adults of the opposite sex.
Well, we can have that conversation here -- what constitutes a man or a woman -- but we've done it before. I'm more interested in the business choice for this particular thread. Target made a decision that they knew would anger some customers. In essence, they said that they prefer that people who want discrimination to not shop there. From a pure business standpoint, that may not be a very good choice. But from an ethical standpoint, it might nevertheless be the right choice (note, I'm talking about Target's ethical view, don't confuse this with some sort of universal ethics or your personal ethics). So how should a business balance the two competing interests?
This is a deliberately deceitful framing of the controversy. Nobody in any camp of this debate has suggested allowing people to use a bathroom other than that assigned to their gender. The controversy is about whether trans women and trans men should be treated like men or like women.
How should they balance the two? They make s calculated choice. Now they'll live with it. A business should be allowed to cater to whoever it wants, whether it's Target or a bakery. You may see these as dissimilar situations but they're not. Both have a set of customers who feel they're being forced into an uncomfortable situation. Too bad. Don't like it, don't shop there.
I should have known it was a mistake to use this particular case. I'm not interested here in the transagender question, it's just a real life illustration. I'll reframe: Imagine a store owner in the Jim Crow South who has just one water fountain. He refuses to restrict use to whites only, and loses customers as a result. Is it worth it to him to make that decision? He loses customers, but remains right with his personal ethics.
I don't particularly agree with the way you've framed this. Target isn't refusing the business of anybody, so it's not a valid comparison with the baker who won't do business with a gay customer. I do agree, however, with your point that it's a calculated decision.
If I operated a retail business that offered men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms; I would prefer that men use the men's room, and vice versa. If a man wanted to use the women's bathroom, I would politely suggest that he use the men's room, or the women's bathroom at his home.
Yeah we all understood that until recently. Then all of the sudden it became an issue and all of the sudden we're all oppressive biggots.
Right. Once again, that does not address the recent controversy, because you're not telling us whether you'd treat trans men as men or as women -- or how you'd check.
This might be a legitimate case of splitting a thread, especially since it might be done by the thread's starter rather than against his wishes.
Even if I had a horse in the whole bathroom issue (doesn't really matter to me - the family bathrooms are where it's at!), you couldn't pay me to shop at Walmart. It's somehow depressing and anxiety-producing at the same time.
Just my opinion. If you are a man, who has traits that are generally associated with women, that's fine. If you would rather discuss interior decorating than football, if you like making floral bouquets, that's great. Do it! If you would like to play a role in life that is generally associated with women, then you've got a tough row ahead of you, because of societal pressures and expectations. But that doesn't change who are. Be who you are. Show the world who you are. Stand up for who you are! But do not pretend that you are a woman. That's just bowing to outside pressures and influences.
I don't see any impact locally from Target's "bathroom policy". While I shop at both places, my family tends to hit Target more often than WalMart. Our shopping choices boil down to: partly location, partly pricing, partly just preferring the Target's stores (better decor, higher end, less "People of WalMart"). The local stores for both chains are still full of people, crowded parking lots, etc.... Frankly, I can't even remember the last time I even used the restroom at a retail store. IMO, the people making a big deal about this are *looking* for something to make a big deal about. (Obviously all this is just anecdotal evidence, as I don't have sales data to compare...but I wonder how telling even sales data would be without corresponding survey data from those who specifically make their retail decisions based on a corporation's "bathroom policies")
I'm not saying they're refusing business. I'm saying their actions guarantee they will lose customers by making them feel uncomfortable. I have no problem at all with either.
Walmart is a disaster. You need to get there before the masses wake up and the busses roll in. That and the checkout lines are horrendous.
I was in a Target the other day for the first time since they made their announcement. The ladies room was a revolving door of masculine men with beards. It was incredible!
Glad you had fun! Did you make good money? Which part of you is the most sore...your knees, your jaw, or your ass?
Then perhaps you shouldn't have written, "Target and Repugnant Customers" This whole issue is a distraction from the real problems the country is facing. Transgender people make up a super tiny part of this country. Men should use men's bathrooms. Women should use women's bathrooms. Target has chosen to willingly allow men into female bathrooms. It's allowed the opposite too but women have been using the bathroom they should be using. It's only creepy men like Gul who hang out in women bathrooms. Whether this affects Target or not in the money department, I'd lean towards not. But I am surprised we haven't had some creep in the women's bathroom have his head blown off. And by head I'm talking about the one on his shoulders. And by blown off I mean with a .357 Magnum.
As I've been recently reminded of in this week's most recent mass shooting, criminals don't respect laws. Far more people have been victimized by people they know than some opportunist lurking in a bathroom during peak hours at Target. Trans women like Nova have already been pissing in women's bathrooms for decades. The only difference is Target is saying they aren't support North Carolina's bigoted law. That's it.
Still doesn't tell me which bathroom a trans man should use in your hypothetical retail store. Are you telling him he should proudly stand up for who he is, i.e. a man? Or are you telling him he should instead find pride he doesn't feel and stand up for what he doesn't believe he is, namely the woman some people demand he be?
All I know is I would never use a bathroom in a Wal Mart or a Target. Take care of business before you leave the house or if you really have to find a nice hotel or upscale restaurant.
A transwoman is not a man with feminie traits, nor a man pretending to be a woman. She is a woman in every conceivable way that could matter to someone sharing a public restroom with her for a few minutes.
I've had no problem with either ones bathroom. I rarely go into Target due to Walmart being much closer to me.
