Terror Attack in Barcelona

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Paladin, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    ISIS claims responsibility. Has anyone learned anything yet? Nope, didn't think so.
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  2. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    The silence from these people is deafing, isn't it?
  3. Anduril

    Anduril So tired Git

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    Certain people hate pattern recognition. It's "racist" to them.
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  4. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    ISIS claims responsibility for everything. ISIS claimed responsibility for a particularly nasty dump I took last week. They claimed that chili I ate the day before was one of their "loyal soldiers," and they described the besmirching of my poor toilet as "striking down the crusaders." :shrug:
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  5. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    No I'm saying not all conservative minded people are Nazis and neither are people who defend their right to free speech.
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  6. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Muslim migrants went on stabbing sprees in both Finland and Germany today.
  7. K.

    K. Sober

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    @Anna has said nothing that disagrees with that. Neither have I, by the way.
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  8. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    No one is equating the posters here defending Nazis with the actual Nazis. The two are quite distinct.

    But it's quite interesting who jumped in to defend Nazis. And who doesn't understand the limits of free speech.
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  9. Captain X

    Captain X Responsible cookie control

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    :ohboy: Communists, dumbass.
  10. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    What? Like we need to improve integration and understanding between disparate communities to avoid things like this happening?
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  11. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    It's not defending Nazis, and the fact that you couch in such terms just shows you're less interested in defending your own stance than you are in stopping others questioning it.

    It's pretty plain there are one or two posters itching to get themselves a swastika, but trying to form an equivalence between anyone defending some actions to defending the ideology to everyone is just dishonest.

    I have no problems with people talking shit, I have issues with them acting on it. I hear a lot of hate speech from provincial and angry people a lot - was only a couple of months an attempt at a quiet pint was interrupted by some bellend witting on about a riot he and his very angry buddies were going to do over the arena bombing.

    Almost two months later, has this riot happened? No. It was bluster from someone who would be hard pressed to start a fire if cast away on a forested island, let alone kick off an actual riot, as that requires a higher order of intelligence than someone whose main ability in life is to fail at it.

    The fear is in someone capable leveraging such causes, and that's more likely to happen if the public eye gives them a platform to recruit from.
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  12. K.

    K. Sober

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    True up to a point, but we are past that point, because they already have those platforms, from Breitbart and 4chan to the fucking White House. And I think it is short-sighted to think that talking shit does not prepare people to do shitty things.
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  13. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Firstly, they haven't the White House. That's pure hyperbole. There is an idiot willing to fan the flames in order to bolster his support wallowing in the Oval Office, but that is it. If they had the White House, we'd know, because DC would be a war zone.

    As for Beitbart and 4chan, the internet was churning out vomit long before they came along. They're representative of a movement, and one that asks questions of us a society that we should respond to. The usual "white privilege tears" response, so beloved of every fucking idiot who thinks history started last week, is what has brought us to here.

    Anyone with an IQ above freezing point should see the "pffft" response is not working out that well.

    Engage with concerns, as those concerns are something of a bellwether regardless of validity. Any concerns that have validity, tackle them, any that don't, look how those concerns can be educated away before they come entrenched.

    You'll never remove them entirely, you'll always get a streak of hate running through society as people seek to blame others for life and society not kowtowing to their ideal, but you can cauterize around the infection and stop it spreading. And the internet will always be home to the disaffected.

    Maybe it's because I've encountered the fruitcakes and seen what made them, but I find them little different from the religious fundies - their hatred is little other than a desperate grasp for identity in a shifting world.

    Modern western governments like to play identity politics, as though there is a single "Black Community" or "East Asian Community" which is a disservice to those communities as much as it leaves a vacuum for the disaffected whites to know where their "Community" is. Unless you've engaged with minorities, the utter bollocks the political left like to spew about some ridiculous monoblocs creates dividing lines in what is an actual spectrum. Half the angry skinheads would find their homophobic attitudes welcomed amongst the minority communities for example.

    Had a shitty day? You can probably share tales with the pissed off teen Asian kid whose family insists his Friday nights are spent working in the town centre kebab shop, serving pissed up white folk who insist on calling him Ahmed.

    Parents don't understand you? Have a coffee with the Asian girl who quite likes make up and only wears a scarf to keep her family happy, and is a bit concerned they're going to try and marry her enough to her cousin with the yellow teeth and paint stripper breath.

    Feel grumpy at the Gay Pride party? Share a pint at the pub with the black guy who fucking hates batty boys, and will loudly inform a nodding bar area of his view.

    Girl I saw a few times. One parent came from Irish Traveller stock, the other Indian. Until kids came along both sides hated each other in a way the Nazis would weep over, "why", they'd ask, "can we not manage such a depth of outright repulsion?"

    I've pretty much seen it all, and it makes me laugh. The differences are so minimal in reality.

    And I have seen more angry white people bellyaching about minorities than any one person should have to put up with.

    So what, exactly, would you have me do to fix this apparent shortsightedness.

    And please note, both the Irish and the Muslims extemists have had a crack at my city, and I never particularly felt I had to do "something" about the Mosques distributing some pretty loathesome literature, or the couple of Irish pubs where the Fenians would mutter darkly about the English and the Proddies.
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  14. K.

    K. Sober

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    Yes, and that provides them with a platform for visibility that helps with recruitment, which is what I said, not that they own the White House. They don't own 4cham either, but it does give them a platform.

    That sounds quite different to what you said before about silence and ridicule. And I can agree with this sentiment in general. However, when a Nazi mob marches through the streets, I am more interested in the immediate concerns of the minorities they threaten than in those of the marching.
  15. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Perpetually sondering

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    ^
  16. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Those are generally nice things but, no, they are not in and of themselves sufficient and never will be. The heart of the problem which can never be avoided is that Islam declares it a command from god for believers to kill various sets of people. That is uniquely different about Islam and it is unreformable unless you can convence believers that they should listen to you instead of the supposed word of god.

    I am happy not all muslims are deeply religious so many, a majority even, ignore the absolutely evil parts of their detestable ideology. The problem is as long as you have muslims there is going to be a not very small slice who want to carry out the supposed word of god and the more muslims you have the more terrorist you will have. That is unavoidably true.

    My perferred action is to restrict muslim immigration as far as is practicable as their belief that god has ordered them to kill other groups of people renders them an obvious liability which is incompatible with western societies. No one has a right to immigrate and even refugees, real ones not the fakes we are currently getting who are mostly just economic migrants pretending to be refugees in order to get around the normal immigratiin system, can be reasonably accomidated in other ways. This is an obvious problem which is best avoided. Japan is a good model to follow as it provides excellent humanitarian support but does not allow resettlement of culturally incompatible groups with in its borders.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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  17. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    Which is why groups like antifa with their violence first approach actually bring more people to the extreme right and allow people like Trump to say "see they are both bad". A much better approach is to speak out against them, make fun of them, and deny them the victim status they so obviously crave. In the 1930's the red brigades tried the same use vpolitical violence approach and it all backfired on them so let's learn from the mistakes of the past and not repeat them.
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  18. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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  19. Soma

    Soma OMG WTF LOL STFU ROTFL!!!

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    It worked out so well for the Jews in 1940s Germany.
  20. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    Hey guys I got a post where both @Diacanu and @Zombie posrepped so I'm bowing of this thread. Good luck.
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  21. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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  22. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ror-cell-planned-attack-Barcelona-church.html

    The animals were planning a much larger attack with a second van and home made van bomb but they accidently blew themselves up on Weds killing two of the 12 animal terrorists. They wanted to tey to blow up the famous cathedral in Barcelona and kill as many people as possible. Is is usual all the animals went to the same nosque in the same small town and the Imam's DNA is all over various meeting sites where the animals planned their attack.
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  23. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    What the CIA, FBI, Interpol and other agencies should do is find out which Mosques have radical Imam's and infiltrate them and when the time comes, arrest them before something happens. It's what we do with organized crime and it works very well. Terrorism will never go away, but we can stomp it out like we did the KKK and the mob.
  24. Dinner

    Dinner 2012 & 2014 Master Prognosticator

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  25. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    That first sentence - how many times after the fact of a terror attack do we find out the attackers were on their radar for YEARS but there wasn't "quite enough" to piece everything together?
  26. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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  27. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Two terrorists blew themselves up making bombs? :rofl:

    That's what the Israelis call, euphemistically, a "work-related accident."
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  28. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    it shouldn't be too hard since they begin early in life - their parents take them to BUILD A BOMB WORKSHOP at the malls! :yes:
  29. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    The internet gives everyone a platform, however it isn't quite as engaging to adults as people like to think. TV still gets more unique eyeballs than 4chan, Beitbart, etc. Even the likes of Instagram, which also has some rather horrific things (my just-become-a-teen lesbian niece gets trolled on it. Some of the memes are amusingly inventive, the fact they're being used by children rather less so), it's more hate-filled images do not come close to reach of TV.

    That's a cross-generational platform, that's the one people look at and correlate to real life. I find on the internet there is a general awareness they're in a cosy little silo, and whilst it's a good spot to organise with like minded individuals, it's generally not that great for converting minds. Giving Nazis a 24 hour rolling platform on the other hand, with talking heads from various opinions taking them seriously? That's dangerous.

    You've got the spin they use for viewing figures in order to amplify both sides, thus further entrenching any views of oppression and support. If someone is on the fence, and Fox shows a video of a black woman spitting venom at some podgy middle aged guy holding a placard starting that White Lives Matter Too, that could push them towards the Nazi camp. Someone else shows a sneering, rage filled face screaming the protestors deserved to be run over may just get people out to counter-protest.

    In the OMG! Internet! era we live in, I think many people forget that a voice of authority (which is generally someone the media regard as an expert) has a higher order of magnitude of influence than someone regarded as being on the same level.

    Only if you've not the capability to differentiate between disaffected white people and Nazis.

    No one wakes up one morning and, whilst looking in the mirror when brushing their teeth, has a sudden flash of inspiration that if they only just hated everyone different the world would be peachy.

    We mock the Nazis, we listen to anyone whose concerns may take them down the path to becoming a Nazi.
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  30. K.

    K. Sober

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    I don't think TV will refrain from reporting on the President. That ship has sailed. On the rest, fair enough, all of that makes sense, but it isn't going to help with the original problem.