"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Steal Your Face, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,878
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,416
    80 missiles launched from Russia at Ukrainian power, C&C and civilian areas. They shot down half of 'em but 10 dead and 60 injured across the country. Lots of power outages. Militarily, you'd call that a failed and quite cost-ineffective attack but obviously the goal here is to terrorize the population and inflict a retaliation for the bridge bombing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-63193124

    Apparently, one missile hit the building holding the German consulate. No word if there were any casualties there as yet.
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    37,745
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +32,243
    It sounds as though the bridge attack was a suicide bombing. How does that work in not-Islam? It also ought to give pause, seeing as three civilians were killed.
  3. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,878
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,416
    Suicide bombing isn't limited to Islam. The first ever recorded suicide bomber was a Russian in the Tsarist era. Japanese Kamikaze is arguably the same thing. It doesn't even need religion in the mix - Tamil separatists used it and they were secular.

    Being willing to take the enemy with you is not a novel concept among the fervently patriotic or whatever other cause you might be prepared to die for.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,878
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,416
    As for the "3 civilians killed" bit. Tragic yes. Though if they were the train crew I would question the civilian angle - military supply is a valid target.

    On the other hand, some of those missiles Putin launched today hit a kids' playground. At least with a suicide bombing, you can ensure as few or as many civilians are in range as possible. Given the traffic on that bridge, making sure only 3 died might well point to greater restraint and respect for civilians that lobbing missiles at cities.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Rincewiend

    Rincewiend 21st Century Digital Boy

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,688
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Ratings:
    +5,624
    • popcorn popcorn x 3
  6. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,878
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,416
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    40,826
    Ratings:
    +28,767
    So if a guy and I have oral stripes do we have to blow each other? Or is it just assumed there are no homosexuals in Ukraine?
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  8. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    76,620
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +154,155
  9. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    37,049
    Location:
    Beyond the Silver Rainbow
    Ratings:
    +26,379
    You are invading people in their home country who are right next to yours who are also physically and culturally similar to you. You really need to be prepared for infiltration and sabotage. You are creating suicide troops daily with the way you are assaulting the population. Fear of retribution becomes meaningless when ypou have wiped out families and city possessions.

    Putin is OMG stupid and dull on strategy in this war. Worse yet is he is doubling down on blunt tactics like punishing the Ukranians with random strikes.

    At this point there can be no doubt punishment through nuclear horror is coming. Maybe he will use chemical weapons first, but he is not fighting to win, he is fighting to hurt and punish.

    I do not know what is possible to do, but the rest of the world should be discussing the reality of a blitz covert penetration deep into his country to destroy his ability to make war and launch those weapons. Even China has to see how dangerously unstable this shit is going now.

    There is no doubt the nukes are coming because Putin is losing and lashing out. This is not ending well for him and he knows it. He does not care about any of our lives, nor does he have any honor. He thinks he is better than everyone and when he is wrong he will hate everyone.
    • TL;DR TL;DR x 2
  10. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,072
    Ratings:
    +81,573
    Tucker Carlson- Leave Putin alone!! Leave him alooone!! :sob:

    FF- Leave Putin alone!! Leave him alooone!! I don't watch Fox!! :sob:
    • Funny Funny x 5
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,878
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,416
    Less than a month later, shit doesn't seem to be moving in the direction your boy suggested.

    Russia seems bent on wasting its already critically low stocks of precision missiles in revenge attacks for the bridge, instead of supporting ground offensives.

    A Russian air force officer who fled to the West has told the BBC Putin is shit-scared his generals are about to mutiny.
    • popcorn popcorn x 4
  12. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

    Joined:
    May 28, 2004
    Messages:
    37,745
    Location:
    Ireland
    Ratings:
    +32,243
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
  13. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,265
    Ratings:
    +22,258
    I think the biggest problem isn't nukes, either conventional or tactical.

    As Russia showed in Syria, they are absolutely willing to use chemical weapons, and while Western policy doesn't differentiate that from other WMDs, clearly regimes have gotten away with it in the past.

    Indeed, the recently promoted General in charge of Putin's war is the same general who did spoiling attacks against civilian populations in Syria.

    Guess we'll see how much difference there is in racism between a Ukrainian and a Syrian in the minds of the Russian military. They are a largely racist bunch. Not using chemical weapons will probably be dictated by that.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  14. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    49,226
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +50,214
  15. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,408
    Ratings:
    +31,461
    We are not war with Russia so it would be dubious at best because it's rarely enforced and probably should be repealed. It looks like it's been used to play political football in recent years and it's constitutionality has come into question.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    30,960
    Ratings:
    +47,666
    If Hillary had done this you'd have misspelled guillotine several times already. :async:
    • Funny Funny x 6
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,408
    Ratings:
    +31,461
    I don't know what's funny about my post.
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  18. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    24,904
    Location:
    Sunnydale
    Ratings:
    +50,914
    Oh, the Logan Act is definitely unconstitutional.

    But since the Trumpers were howling about John Kerry supposedly violating it not too long ago, it'd be pretty hilarious to watch them do an about-face in order to defend the weird crush they all seem to have on Musk.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    49,226
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +50,214
    52E4CA1C-8672-4A73-8C6A-327BF5DFC058.jpeg
    46181DC9-068C-4AEA-A3CD-6382E670AC03.jpeg
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Sad Sad x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  20. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,408
    Ratings:
    +31,461
    Until @shootER brought it up, it’s the first I’ve ever heard of it.
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  21. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    49,226
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +50,214
    Before today I hadn't heard of it either. I don't remember the Kerry thing either. :chris:
  22. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,408
    Ratings:
    +31,461
    It’s on the Wiki page you posted.
    • Love Love x 1
  23. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    24,904
    Location:
    Sunnydale
    Ratings:
    +50,914
    It was one of Cheeto Benito's obsessions for a while.
    • popcorn popcorn x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    30,960
    Ratings:
    +47,666
    I remember it from when Obama was president and a bunch of Republicans publicly tried to undermine his nuclear deal with Iran. :async:

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/03/logan-act-tom-cotton-iran-116036/
    • Agree Agree x 1
  25. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2004
    Messages:
    27,084
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Ratings:
    +39,483
    Biggest difference is that Putin is trying to keep up with messaging that Ukraine isn't a real country and that it's just part of Russia whose people deserve to be brought back into the flock. That gets a lot harder if he goes full scorched Earth.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    76,620
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +154,155
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
  27. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,344
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +57,468
    So uh… The Russians have published a hype video about a factory that will be able to modernize 800 T-62s in 3 years. (In Soviet/Russian tank nomenclature the number represents the year it entered service. T-62 = Tank 1962.)

    Wow. Congrats.

    Translated tweet:

    Russia is modifying 800 T-62 tanks for the war in Ukraine. This means that all newer T-64, T-72 and T-80 tanks are over, and new ones cannot be produced quickly.

    Assess the situation of the tank factory in the video, by the way

    https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1580216195546243072?s=46&t=fdHoJdyxsQwSmuONOVR5gA
    • Funny Funny x 1
  28. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,344
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +57,468
    Just to add, I’m not saying an actually fully modernized T-62 would be worthless. The Israelis have shown how with the right tech, engineering, training and tactics how you can wring a lot of utility out of any chassis.

    I just think:
    a) this shows just how great the Russian losses have been
    b) just how low their stockpiles are
    and this is just a personal opinion but
    c) I have ZERO faith in their ability to actually modernize these tanks. I don’t expect new power packs, fire control systems, barrels, optics, GPS/GLONASS, modern comm systems, etc. Best case scenario they get the engines running and throw a radio in. In 3 years.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2022
    • Agree Agree x 2
  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    51,344
    Location:
    Downtown
    Ratings:
    +57,468
    Guess we'll see how much difference there is in racism between a Ukrainian and a Syrian in the minds of the Russian military.

    At the same time we’ll see how racist the West is when it comes to responding to chemical weapons attacks on brown people vs white.
  30. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    49,226
    Location:
    The Steam Pipe Trunk Distribution Venue
    Ratings:
    +50,214
    The T-number doesn't always line up with the year it entered service, sometimes being several years before or after the number in the nomenclature (T-55, for example, entered service in 1959 and its predecessor the T-54 entered service in 1947).

    In the case of T-62, it actually entered service in 1961, making the design slightly older than the number would indicate.

    And I agree about "upgrading" them.

    The Russians don't throw anything away. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a warehouse (or warehouses) somewhere with a bunch of T-34s parked inside "just in case".
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1