"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Steal Your Face, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey cynicism isn't wisdom, it's surrender.

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    not gonna lie... been empathizing with my grandparents who got the fuck outta Denmark in the mid 30s after having seen angry Germans in their teens...
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  2. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    I don't think there's a need to highlight it. Everyone knows there's a risk. Russia won't let anyone forget it. They're counting on it. Russia is the rapist with a gun to a girl's head, expecting to get his way due to fear.
    I think it is a binary choice. And one of the few times in this world we get such a thing. No, there is no fully innocent country. But there is also no proper, ethical excuse for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We, as a species, allowed them to decimate Chechnya. To annex Ossetia and east Moldova. To consume Crimea. And now they've seized a quarter of Ukraine. At what point do we stop allowing them to bully the world with their nuclear arsenal?


    From my vantage point, the west IS the protagonist. But as anyone in my first-year lit class can tell you, that doesn't make them the hero. This time, though? They certainly are.
    Has the USA engaged in practices i disagree with? Of course. Our continued support of Saudi Arabia and Israel enrages me. You of all people know I was firmly in support of Israel's response to the October 7th attack at first. But as it became more and more clear what that attacked was being used to justify, my opinion shifted dramatically. Because I do have moral consistency. It generally boils down to "Evil must be opposed."
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  3. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Since there are options other than "cower" and "provoke nuclear war", it is manifestly not.

    The question is a non-sequitor, since once again, I haven't proposed this nor have I claimed that there exists any "fully innocent country", whatever that might mean. But you expressed disbelief that there could be any reason not to escalate against Russia. One does exist, and no amount of invective against Putin will make it go away.
    (Not to mention that the list of crimes committed by the United States and their allies would be longer than the one you supply here.)


    Except that when it's Russia, they must be crushed. But when it's the US, apparently not. They still get to do the crushing and you use weasel words like "practices I disagree with", in contrast with "bully the world".
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  4. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    Here's the difference: When the USA invaded Iraq, there was a massive voter uproar against it. One that helped carry Obama to victory.
    In Russia, Pussy Riot was just sentenced in absentia for protesting the war in Ukraine.
    Part of what got Trump elected was a vow to keep us out of war. And his backtracking on that has led to a sharp decline in support.
    It isn't "weasel words", it's democracy in action. There's no reason to get in a pissing match over who has the most blood on their hands.
    And yes, I do want the USA to get "crushed" for our crimes. I'd love it if countries would grow more of a spine in that regard. I cheered when Korea said they'd pull out their investments because of Trump's actions. So please don't put words in my mouth. Yes, the USA has often been a bully. And I'd like it if someone gave us a bloody nose over it.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2025
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  5. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Good discussion at the Council of Foreign Relations’ podcast:

    https://thepresidentsinbox.podbean.com/e/russia-violates-nato-airspace-with-liana-fix/

    Liana Fix, senior fellow for Europe at the Council, sits down with James M. Lindsay to discuss Russia’s recent drone incursions into Polish airspace, and whether the move signals an expansion of the war in Ukraine.

    Mentioned on the Episode:
    Liana Fix and Erin D. Dumbacher, “Russia Tests NATO With Poland Drone Breach,” CFR.org

    For an episode transcript and show notes, visit The President’s Inbox at: https://www.cfr.org/podcasts/tpi/russia-violates-nato-airspace-liana-fix

    She brings up something that folks have been complaining and thinking about for a while now: the cost imbalance of drones. Using a fighter jet that costs a million an hour to operate to shoot a $200k missile at a $15k drone just isn’t sustainable.

    Lots of people are working on this. Electronic defenses, going back to gun based anti-air artillery, using drones against drones, etc.

    She brings up one I haven’t really heard before: If you can’t afford to play defense against Russian drones play offense. That while Europe works on drone defense strategy and implementation they should give Ukraine the ability to take out Russia’s drone manufacturing facilities.
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  6. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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  7. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Congrats Putin on the fifth new NATO Brigade on your border.

    NATO sources told Iltalehti that Sweden’s Norrbotten Brigade will form the core of the new NATO brigade in Finnish Lapland, numbering 4-5 thousand troops. The unit, specialized in winter warfare, will be backed by Swedish Archer howitzers pre-positioned in Rovaniemi and Sodankylä.

    https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3lzsqsnqjoc25


    Masterful bit of strategy Mr President.
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  8. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  9. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Uh huh....

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    Putin's army shot down a Malaysian Airlines flight in 2014 and there were no consequences

    Sink the fucking thing
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  10. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  11. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  12. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  13. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Good discussion in today’s Foreign Affairs Interview podcast.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-foreign-affairs-interview/id1623855270?i=1000730966259


    Ever since Russia started its war in Ukraine, assessments of its military power have vacillated wildly. First, Russian forces were supposed to overrun Ukraine and crush any resistance in a matter of days. Then, they were thought to be so weak that a Ukrainian counteroffensive or a new capability might cause them to collapse altogether. Now, with the war in its fourth year, and Donald Trump’s return to office bringing uncertainty about Western support, it has started to seem once again that time might be on Moscow’s side.

    Dara Massicot argues in Foreign Affairs that none of these images reflects reality. Since the invasion began, Massicot, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, has been analyzing the state of Russia’s military—its failure and its surprising resiliency. But what has struck Massicot more recently, and what she thinks many observers are missing, is the extent to which Russia has managed to learn and adapt—in Ukraine and beyond. She warns in a new piece for Foreign Affairs that “the Russian military will emerge from its invasion with extensive experience and a distinct vision of the future of combat”—experience it is already sharing with China, Iran, and North Korea.

    The United States and Europe should pay close attention. Because if they do not take it upon themselves to “study Russia’s studying,” as Massicot puts it, she worries that they risk not just losing Ukraine but also falling behind in the next global crisis.

    You can find sources, transcripts, and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview.
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  14. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    *Future Anc bumps the thread*

    Future Anc- Whelp, they didn't listen, we're all dead.
    :sigh:
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  15. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Administrator

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    Russia has done much worse than expected (definitely a good thing!) but there is a baffling amount of commentary from Americans who expect Russians to say the cost is too much and rise up to stop it all any moment now. After two decades of fighting wars in the middle East and all the DOESN'T MATTER NOW IF YOU AGREE WITH THE WAR, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and PEOPLE FIGHTING BUSHES DADDY ISSUES IN IRAQ TO PAY FOR COLLEGE ARE HEROES PROTECTING OUR FREEDOM nonsense you'd think more would understand that nations at war, especially the aggressors, tend to go a little bit insane.
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  16. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  17. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    If supplied, Tomahawks would likely be operated and maintained by US contractors, not Ukrainian forces, to limit escalation and protect sensitive tech, FT reports. Initial deliveries would be just 20–50 missiles, far below Ukraine’s request and not enough for sustained deep strikes, experts say.

    https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.com/post/3m3chhujz5k2v

    First off the Tomahawk is a 40 year old primarily sea-launched cruise missile.

    While we have developed a ground launched version it just entered service in 2023*. We still don’t have enough for ourselves yet:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhon_missile_system

    So we’re going to send a brand new system firing a 40 year old missile (yes, yes there have been upgrades I know), manned by US ‘contractors’ which will surely piss the Russians off but not enough missiles to actually do the job?

    This seems… not well thought out.

    Especially when JASSM would be much more useful IMO:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-158_JASSM

    The missile is newer, much harder to shoot down, more accurate, ‘bunker busting’ and can be launched by Ukrainian pilots from Ukrainian systems (F-16s).

    Less escalation more destruction.

    *This is why China got so pissed at Russia fucking around with US-Soviet/Russia arms treaties. They didn’t bind China. But since Russia violated the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty the US was allowed to pull out and develop this system.

    Training exercises have already been conducted in Japan, the Philippines and Australia. The Philippines and Taiwan have asked to purchase.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2025
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  18. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  19. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  20. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Uh huh....

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    Anyone notice how the same people who bitch incessantly about giving Ukraine money to defend themselves from an Imperialist aggressor aren't saying a damn thing about giving $40 billion to Argentina

    Russian bootlickers
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  21. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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  22. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  23. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    Things must be going well in Ukraine.

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  24. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  25. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  26. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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