Trans activists failing to persuade people on the sports issue

I know I call him East Coast Dayton but that's really unfair and I apologize.


Dayton was never this much of a little bitch.

I thought this thread was about trans activism and not dayton's attempt to derail it into another discussion about him and his views on Ukraine?

Ok I guess that makes sense. Fucking hell.

Found this on Facebook …

Here you go @Demiurge . Grow the fuck up and educate yourself. Or keep on with people like @Bill Carson , @Uncle Albert , and the rest of your fear mongering right wing liars.

This looks relevant

anyone who has mixed feelings out of the idea that these might be sincere concerns...should jump over to the "don't say gay" thread and see the direction all this is going. There are no "legitimate concerns" - only emotional wedge issues designed explicitly to garner public support for legislating trans people out of public life.

I'm inclined to think that we're too far beyond their ability to put us back in the closet, short of full on Putin style authoritarianism, but they will cause much suffering in an all-hands attempt. And I may be too optimistic

I’m guessing you haven’t seen this yet: https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/

fucked up if true.

Oh yes I have.

“She went to step up to compete for the grade four shot-put final, and right before she went to throw, a grandfather of a student said, 'Hey, this is supposed to be a girls' event, and why are you letting boys compete.' My daughter is cisgender, born female, uses she/her pronouns. She has a pixie haircut," said mom Heidi Star.

Star says the man then carried on to demand certification to prove that her daughter was born female.

"He stopped the entire event. He also pointed at another girl who also had short hair. He then piped in and said, 'Well, if she is not a boy, then she is obviously trans.'"

Star said the man's wife then started calling her "a genital mutilator, a groomer, and a pedophile."​

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/431500/Girl-9-accused-of-being-trans-at-Kelowna-track-meet

Look. If two nine years old girls with short hair have to be yelled at and abused by an old white man in order to ‘protect women’s sports’ well then that is just the price we have to pay.

This is how things are now.

For the girls.

This is exactly what it is about. They want to make girls look girly or else. It is part of the control to have a doll that is forced to conform to the weaker damsel image. Sexism is so groomed into our society that women will actually attack other women for standing up for themselves. It is fucking brutal.

This is one of the thinghs that totally weirds me out about myself being trans. I hate needing to be saved. I hate being condescended to. I hate being patronized. However, that is what women are conditioned to put up with and accept.

I know I am a girl, but I do not want to be a girl socially. There is a reason I am fucked up and this is the core of my being. This is the beginning part of the weave of my personality. To be intelligent enough to be aware of it is really fucking insane sometimes.

@Uncle Albert and @Bill Carson are overjoyed.

FTFY

the irony is that it's a complete argument of why their positions and goals are no longer relevant, and more oft than not, hypocritical.

hell, even contradictory within the same sentence.

it really does have to be one or the other...

But no, it's not about bigotry...it's about protecting women's sports, which has always been of utmost interest to everyone.

My main question is how did that man leave with his teeth intact?

Oh man, time for me to educate ya'll on Kelowna

Kelowna is the White Trash Capital City of Canada, a population full of steroid monkey white dudes with terrible tattoos and Arnette shades. That and biker gangs

To give you an idea of what they look like and are about, here's Dollah D and his smash hit "Kelownafornia":



Yes, these guys actually take themselves very seriously

I live 4 hours away, been many times (the golf courses are fantastic around Kelowna). It's a shithole full of douchebags, decent cocaine though

When I heard about this incident, I knew exactly what the guy who did it looked like. Muscles, shades, some form of jewelry, leather skin tan, and lo and behold:



100% Kelowna cunt

This whole unfortunate incident is not surprising to me at all, this place is full of people like this. I have a friend who used to be a teacher in Kelowna, he ended up moving towns because he couldn't stand dealing with not only the students, but their parents as well

Damn, is he trying to give Jeff Goldblum a bad name?

My hometown Hockey team plays Kelowna and Castlegar regularly.

In the meanwhile, Gallup poll out today have shown decreasing support for transwomen athletes competing in female sports. 69% are opposed, and that includes a large percentage of political independents, at 67%. Even among democrats showed a significant split, with 48% opposed and 47% in favor."

This includes majorities who favor the ban even among those who know transgender people.

And shows a 6-8% shift in favor of opposition in the last 2 years

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...ing-team-choice-falls-poll-finds/70306217007/

I certainly don't support private citizens taking it on their own recognizance to threaten children or inspect their genitalia, it's grotesque. And it has nothing to do with what rules should govern athletics.

But while the majority of Americans DO support gender affirming care, the majority oppose transwomen in women's sports.

It's almost like the two issues aren't the exact same for the majority of people.

So what's your proposed alternative? Force certain women to play men's sports? Create their own separate sports leagues? Not allow them to play at all?

There's no human right to play in competitive sports. Every kid that had to make the grades or was too old or too big to make the cut knows that. And a huge number who simply weren't good enough.

If you don't qualify to play elite sports, you don't qualify. I know quite a few kids in my neighborhood that didn't make teams they were trying out for.

That doesn't mean all sports are closed to transathletes, as there are endless coed recreational leagues for people to play in that don't have any such restrictions.

And if the argument is that takes away transathletes rights to compete for scholarships and professional money then it's a question of do they have any advantage. As if they do, then that takes away opportunities for others. The question on that is still out but there are several new studies that show transwomen who went through male puberty do.

At the moment, it appears that the governing bodies of the major individual sports have taken the baseline that if you went through puberty as a male than you can't play in women's athletics.

So we continue to look at that data, and continue to look at puberty blockers - if those are safe then that will stop being an issue over time.

And in my opinion this is very much a different topic than the draconian laws being implemented throughout conservative areas that criminalize gender affirming care.

It is a far different statement to say that because human medical intervention is required to transition we need to make sure no one gets undue advantage, then saying that transpeople shouldn't exist.

Especially considering we know that such attacks on human dignity lead to disproportionate numbers of suicides.

Quick response: Jesus Christ, read the room.

Longer response: If you think moving the Overton window doesn't involve the application of good cop/bad cop tactics just like this, then you're adorably naive.

"Throwing Jews into ovens is going too far! But a majority of patriotic Germans support compelling Jews to wear highly visible markers to self-identify, and we're exploring the benefits of sending them to live elsewhere with all the other undesirables, all in the interest of public safety."

Yeah, the room is not a room, it's a silo. And not a particularly self-aware one at that.

For example, you just conflated not letting transathletes violate women's rights is the same thing as endorsing their extermination, when I specifically pointed out that they are separate issues and voiced my disgust over that conceit. That's extraordinarily stupid.

And for us in the US, reading the room evidently means something else entirely. After all, even more democrats oppose this than favor it by a very slight margin. No political group is in favor.

So do we go by majority opinion then? No? What about the room? Was the room right when it opposed equal rights? Interracial marriage? Gay rights?

It's an entirely bullshit assertion any way. The room isn't important, it's the fundamental question of does one groups rights supersede another.

My answer is no, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that answer.

I wouldn’t call myself an idiot. But I have no idea what the Nazis/Jews relevance is to this discussion.

I'm not reading all that. Congratulations or condolences, whichever applies.

You don't seem to realize we're in the middle of another front in the culture war started by the righties and the fundies after they lost the gay rights battle. On one side there's trans people whose final objective is to be treated as indistinguishable from the gender with which they identify, and in the other side there's assorted conservative fucksticks whose final objective is to push trans people out of society altogether, and preferably into graves with headstones that indicate the gender they were assigned at birth. The people saying "let's push them out of society just a bit" think they're arguing in a vacuum, but they're not, and I'm done treating that position as a valid one.

Judges would have also accepted echo chamber.

It's another rightwing political movement trying to wipe out another poorly understood minority group. The anti-transgender people have made no secret that's their ultimate goal. People like Demi that don't support that final solution but do support baby steps towards it aren't the noble centrists they think they are, they're useful idiots and enablers.

I'm sure if you asked 40's centrist Germans post-holocaust if their enabling haunted them, their answer would be "LALALALALALA-FUCKING-LAAAAAAA!!!!! ".