Trouble in America

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by T.R, May 27, 2020.

  1. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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  2. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Perpetually sondering

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    Officer who held back crowd during George Floyd’s murder convicted of aiding and abetting manslaughter

    https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/02/us/tou-thao-george-floyd-trial/index.html

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  3. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Marine veteran murders homeless man on subway, is released without charges

    Source: https://www.newsweek.com/former-mar...nyc-subway-sparks-fierce-crime-debate-1798138

    The news outlets have been pretty soft on this guy, using the same passive voice they use when police murder someone. The marine grabbed the man and put him in a chokehold for 15 minutes until he died. He didn't attack anyone, and while I understand the fear and concern when a mentally disabled person is out in public, this was not the solution AT ALL.

    There was no justification for murdering this man. Where are we going? I don't mean on the national level, I mean in the hearts of people? There are people in this country fucking shooting each other for ringing doorbells, murdering homeless people for begging. The cops are out of control, the government is out of control, and the people follow. Combined with what is going on in our government, this country is in decay as fascism, bigotry, and a eugenicist mindset are on the rise.
    Last edited: May 3, 2023
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  4. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    First, a marine, unless his job was military police, would not and should not be held to any higher standards than any other civilian. and yes, I do believe police officers should be more fully trained and harsher punishments when things go wrong.

    Without the full story of what happened, I'm assuming the mentally unstable mentally ill person said or did something offensive or possibly causing others to fear for their safety and the civilian (despite marine veteran status) attempted to subdue the individual but ended up killing that individual. That would be manslaughter at most and depending on the state, the punishment and length of incarceration are entirely up to the court.

    That being said, my own son could very well have been that person who was killed. and yes, I would be hurt and angry, but those civilians shouldn't have to feel unsafe. This is why I have lost all savings and gone into debt to keep my son off the streets and out of harms way - anyone and everyone's way.
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  5. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    It shouldn't have to be like that, though. The homeless man was clearly mentally unstable, but to choke him for 15 minutes until he died? There's no excuse for that. None.
    Mental health services in this country is a joke, a country where disabled people of all stripes are put in harm's way. That's the eugenicism part of my comment earlier. It seems the US would rather the sick and disabled just die and get out of the way lest it make them uncomfortable.

    They deserve better. You and your son deserves better. We all deserve better than that.

    Edit to add: A person on Twitter documented Jordan Neely's (the homeless man who was murdered) last few years.

    https://twitter.com/taliaotg/status/1653740935778320384
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  6. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    While I do agree that much more should be done and be available for mentally ill people, I do not believe, from the article presented, that the person attempting to restrain the mentally ill person intended to harm him. just subdue him.
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  7. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    I disagree, primarily because he choked him for 15 minutes while the man was struggling to get free.
    15 minutes.

    Put your arm around somebody's throat and tighten it for 15 minutes while they struggle to breathe. What are your intentions?
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  8. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    I'm not even going to pretend I know anything about wrestling, but isn't a "sleeper hold" very similar to choking someone?

    Disagree all you want, but it doesn't change the motivations of the guy attempting to subdue someone perceived as being dangerous.
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  9. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Shit, I can't hold my fat-ass cat for 15 minutes.
    He feels like a sack of dumbbells, and he kicks out at the 45 second mark.

    The cop couldn't get cuffs or zip-ties on the guy in 15 minutes?
    He should either be fired for that alone, or he intended to murder all along.
    Last edited: May 3, 2023
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  10. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    15 minutes is the key here. Not 9-15 seconds, the average length of time for a sleeper hold:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold

    15 minutes.

    Here, try this:
    Hold your breath as long as you can. Even if you manage to make it to 5 minutes before nearly blacking out, you're still 10 minutes shy of what this man did on someone who hadn't acted on any violence, he was just upset because he was hungry and thirsty. They murdered a homeless man for being hungry and thirsty and being frustrated about it.

    Also, the murderer is a former Marine. So, he should have known better. Just like cops are supposed to know better.

    Remember Eric Garner? NPR had a Q&A on sleeper and choke holds from back then:

    Source: https://www.npr.org/2014/12/04/3684...erence-between-sleeper-holds-and-airway-holds

    or, if that's insufficient, what happened to Bradley Winsor:

    Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/daniel-hodgson-trial-day-three-1.6000409

    All of these apply to holds used for under 30 seconds.

    What happened to Jordan Neely went on for 15 minutes.
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  11. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    You can either have more of this, or involuntary civil commitment. Make your choice.
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  12. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Eat farts, you nonce.
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  13. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Somebody fears the involuntary commitment for non-functional adults. :chris:
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  14. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    You fear little girls having autonomy over their bodies.
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  15. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    You fear them having control of their own spaces, tubesteak.
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  16. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Is "tubesteak" the new thing you're trying out? This is the second usage in the past few minutes.

    You're not letting them have control over their own spaces, or their bodies. You've made the decision for them, and get angry when people tell you that you can't do that. We fight back against people like you because we see you as a predator. You're the predator here, @Uncle Albert, not the trans community.
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  17. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    That's a lot of shit for a response in which I already said I do not know, nor do I care. I'm just saying, based on the article you linked to, there's nothing to indicate the marine did anything to intentionally kill the person. So, unless you have a different article, your blowing smoke up my ass and I'm not having it.
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  18. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    Sorry, Uncle Albert. Didn't mean to consider you reasonable or anything like that. Must have lost my head.
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  19. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I mean, he may as well stop trying to be "cute" and use the slur words, and get it over with.
    It's like he thinks a face visor is a mask fit for robbing a bank.
    No, asshole, we see you.
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  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    I saw Jordan Neely perform his Michael Jackson routine many times on the A train. He always made people smile.

    Our broken mental health system failed him. He deserved help, not to die in a chokehold on the floor of the subway.

    https://twitter.com/marklevinenyc/status/1653843395373047808?s=46&t=iYW3foyqIA6Tn8VWwn3nwQ
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  21. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

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    Because you say so, with your unshakeable grasp on reality.
    :rolleyes:
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  22. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    Because nothing says grade-A sanity like someone who'd react to a marathon of "Jem And The Holograms" like Alex DeLarge hearing Beethoven next to a third floor window.
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  23. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Why do you gotta be stupid? You made a statement. I responded with my opinions, and now you want to insult me for expressing my opinions. Fuck off.
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  24. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    You responded with insults, and now you're upset I insulted you in return? You really ARE getting more like Uncle Albert, lack of self-awareness included.
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  25. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    No, I didn't. But now I am.

    You and I have had a fairly respectful relationship for .. 15+ years. But, now you're acting like Tererun, so now you get treated the same as them. have a good life. I'll not be speaking to you again.
  26. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    :bye:
  27. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Prevention is better than cure.

    Have strong public health programs, funding for social workers, carers, and treatment, and funded initiatives to help both the homeless and those at risk of becoming homeless, and many of these people would never reach the point that commitment is necessary.
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  28. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    How long do you think someone can be choked without dying? Do you know what choking is? Do you know what breathing is, and why it's kind of important? :chris:

    I'm just kidding, of course you don't. Carry on.
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  29. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  30. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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    What? All they gotta do is pull themselves up by their bootstraps!
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