Trump longevity poll, evening of 5/17

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, May 18, 2017.

?

How long will Trump be in office?

Poll closed Saturday at 12:16 AM.
  1. He will finish out his initial term (at least)

    38.2%
  2. He will resign and be replacd by Pence during his initial term

    26.5%
  3. He will be impeached, removed from office and replacd by Pence during his initial term

    17.6%
  4. Either through impeachment or resignation both Trump and Pence will not finish out the initial term

    5.9%
  5. Other

    11.8%
  1. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,574
    Ratings:
    +18,471
    If the defence of a Constitution that allowed slavery is that it still pointed to the larger ideal of actual freedom for everyone, despite failing to realise it, and that it was eventually improved, then the value of the ideal is in the ongoing improvement, not in refusing change.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  2. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,587
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ratings:
    +23,268
    No-one, certainly not me, is "refusing change." But you shouldn't abandon core principles on the basis that they're not fashionable this week. The preamble to the Constitution still contains the basics of the American experiment.

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,574
    Ratings:
    +18,471
    And if someone suggests changing the preamble rather than any of the topics raised in this thread, that will be more than a strawman argument.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    Conservatives are the ones abandoning those principles! Are you daft? Women have no control over their own bodies. Gays have no control over their choice of marriage partners. Children have no control over their religion. Oh, and anyone who isn't "Christian" is fucked.

    Stop pretending to uphold these things with one side of your mouth, then deny them out of the other.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • popcorn popcorn x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  5. Lanzman

    Lanzman Vast, Cool and Unsympathetic Formerly Important

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    Messages:
    27,587
    Location:
    Virginia, USA
    Ratings:
    +23,268
    My God, you are absolutely lost. Just . . . don't talk to me any more. Oy.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Sad Sad x 1
  6. Kilometres O'Brien

    Kilometres O'Brien Keiko makes me wear it

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    19,722
    Location:
    Transporter Room 3
    Ratings:
    +11,613
    No one is suggesting that.
  7. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,071
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +6,283
    Care to back that up?

    And as a case for the defence against:

    Way to prove a point :marathon:
  8. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    12,865
    Location:
    South Park, Colorado
    Ratings:
    +9,533
    Last time I checked, gay marriage and abortions are legal.
  9. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    Way to prove my point? Yes. Social justice should always be a priority. Debate? of course. There are many ways to work things out, we have to find which is the best.

    The problem is that Conservatives shut down every discussion with "NO! We HAVE to go back to 1776!"
  10. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,574
    Ratings:
    +18,471
    Check again once Trump/Pence are through rebuilding the Supreme Court.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    Only because of Liberals. If Conservatives had anything to do with it, they wouldn't be.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,071
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +6,283
    Well no, my point was you immediately went to shut me down and paint me as someone who hate progress rather than actually expand on my post.

    As for social justice should always be a priority, well given the definition of social justice is rather fluid, I'd rather some concrete examples.

    Trans- and intersex being able to use the bathroom of the gender they identify with? Yup, fine with that.

    Some of the censorship of views in public spaces I've seen floated? Nope. If you can't deal with a different opinion, you may as well go chug a bleach cocktail now as life has a lot of worse things in store as you get along in life.

    So, that's why you tried to shut me down with a "it's the same BS!" rather than engage me on it? :marathon:

    They're not alone in shutting down debate.

    I had a wonderful moment a few years back when I said I disagreed with the UK gay civil unions laws, which immediately got most of the company I was with foaming at the mouth.

    After about 15 minutes of relentless whining and abuse had exhausted their jaws I pointed out that I didn't think they went far enough and wanted marriage between any consenting adults, regardless of gender or number, to be recognised by the state, whilst allowing churches to choose whether they would provide a religious service, which was why I disagreed with them.

    At least one had the good grace to apologize for making a knee jerk assumption I was about to condemn the concept. The rest mumbled.

    I sympathise with a lot of left wing views, not all, but a lot - however I don't like hanging around them overly much. If you're doing a graph of arrogant cuntyness, the right certainly certainly zooms upwards, however the left starts at a much higher value of cuntyness.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  13. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    38,339
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,929
    I would settle for 1972 if that makes you happy.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM This Sunday AD

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,012
    Location:
    Missouri
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    :yes:

    Likewise, although in my case it also has a lot to do with the abortion question.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM This Sunday AD

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,012
    Location:
    Missouri
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    Well, maybe that's what some of the people who want to "slow down and take a breath" are after?
  16. K.

    K. Sober

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    21,574
    Ratings:
    +18,471
    "Work things out" and "slow down" are different propositions, and "slow down" is a very difficult proposition for a person who already enjoys full rights to offer to one who doesn't.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  17. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    You accuse me of shutting down debate, but you don't seem amenable to debate when you start off with " 'progressive' has been somewhat hijacked to mean " cuz I quit reading after that.
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  18. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Messages:
    4,917
    Ratings:
    +4,105

    [​IMG]
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. matthunter

    matthunter Magical Truthsaying Bastard

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    10,510
    Location:
    The City
    Ratings:
    +5,958
    The constitution is more than the 2nd amendment, which liberals are at worst seeking to limit because ability to wield deadly weapons fucking well SHOULD have some limits. And if you think you can argue for liberals trying to undermine anything else, go right ahead.

    Meanwhile, maybe you can remember the political affiliation of the last US president to say "the Constitution is just a goddamn piece of paper!"?
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    39,887
    Ratings:
    +17,320
    I don't think so. There ARE people on the margins of any political worldview who claim to be the "true" representitives, but are not, in fact, that.

    In the same sense that Richard Spencer is not the true face of Conservatism (or libertarians) the people you describe are not the face of mainstream progressives.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  21. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM This Sunday AD

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    11,012
    Location:
    Missouri
    Ratings:
    +3,022
    Oh, well, there is that. I was thinking more in terms of things like nuclear reactors and cloning.
  22. Soma

    Soma OMG WTF LOL STFU ROTFL!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,220
    Location:
    Roswell
    Ratings:
    +2,970
    The thing is the current incarnation of the party of progressives are anything but. They'd give Hitler a run for his money.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2004
    Messages:
    8,701
    Location:
    Minnesnowta
    Ratings:
    +4,812
    I'm on your side, but you tend to come out swinging rather than searching for common ground. #tonepolicing
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Love Love x 1
  24. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    This is probably true. I've always been a fighter. And I've been fighting against people attacking my liberal principles all my life. I'm thinking it's time they started trying to find common ground with me. Why should liberals always be the ones to have to play nice - especially when we're accused of doing the stone-throwing.
  25. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Wonderful, Loving Husband & Father

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2004
    Messages:
    38,339
    Location:
    Norphlet, Arkansas
    Ratings:
    +16,929
    You can't fight the world. Unless you want to live like an animal. (The Virginian)
  26. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 light & lethal

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    58,589
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    Ratings:
    +19,921
    since when do liberals play nice? :shrug: They appear to play nice (or at least their echo chamber thinks they are playing nice) and by golly their excrement has the same noxious smell as that of a conservative as far as I know.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  27. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    39,887
    Ratings:
    +17,320
    the new revelations are dropping so hard and fast it's basically impossible to foreecast where this runaway train is going or when it will get there
    • Agree Agree x 4
  28. Jenee

    Jenee No Longer Affiliated With ABBA

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    13,185
    Location:
    In the park
    Ratings:
    +5,137
    You don't even know me. Yet, you and every other conservative here has attacked me at every turn.
  29. Eightball

    Eightball Fresh Meat

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,271
    Location:
    here
    Ratings:
    +857
    He will have some health problems and resign declaring himself the winner and citing them as reason by years end.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  30. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    18,071
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    Ratings:
    +6,283
    You understand that debate consists of making an assertion, and that assertion being challenged?

    I made an assertion, you stopped reading and dived right into assumptions and opted to try and close me down without most of the information.

    Uh-huh.

    @Dayton3 mate, you've got a twin sister.
    • Funny Funny x 2