well that escalated quickly! Business as usual or the tip of the iceberg?

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by oldfella1962, May 11, 2021.

  1. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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  2. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    The US should try to negotiate a peace agreement.
  3. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    first we need to negotiate one between the liberals and conservatives right here at home! :yes: Or maybe between those who say "ketchup" and those who say "catsup". :unsure:
  4. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    I’m not sure either side is interested in peace :shrug:
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  5. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    I agree, I was just answering @oldfella1962 ’s question because I think we shouldn’t get involved militarily.
  6. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  7. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Northern Ireland peace was achieved when enough of those involved in The Troubles decided they'd had enough. (Hopefully Brexit won't cause that to come unraveled). I'd like to live long enough to see that happen between the Israelis and Palestinians, but I won't hold my breath. :chris:
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  8. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    that depends on what you mean by "side". What the governments want and what most of the actual citizens want might be two different things. Militarily I don't see what U.S. involvement would do really. Both sides have enough weaponry to annihilate each other already, and if we try using a show of force to intimidate either side we would get a resounding :shrug: because neither side scares very easily after so many years of hammering each other. This is definitely something that needs to be hashed out on the local level by the participants.
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  9. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Hamas definitely does NOT have enough weaponry to annihilate Israel. If it did, it would have.
  10. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    They seem to be doing ok though

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  11. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    I'm not taking sides -- there's enough blame to go around for everyone -- but certain posters on this board seem to think Israel is the embodiment of evil.

    Let's not forget that Israel could basically take over half the Middle East without breaking a sweat. The fact that they don't is a good indication that they're not completely evil.
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  12. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    and how hard would it be to get more weaponry since they are adjacent or near many other nations that would love to see Israel destroyed? On the other hand, would you want to be one of those nations caught helping to harm Israel? :shock: Nobody wants to be caught holding the stick that pokes that bear! :bergman: And that iron dome is no joke!
  13. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    I totally agree with 100 percent of this comment. :salute:
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  14. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Netanyahu is a piece of shit; that's probably why Trump liked him so much.

    But it's easy to criticize Israel while sitting safely in a country that isn't getting rockets lobbed at its cities on a regular basis.
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  15. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

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    I think they were both getting jealous and antsy that covid might end the world instead of them.
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  16. Amaris

    Amaris Witch of Winter

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    I think Israel is an occupational force that has taken over Palestine, and they will always respond to the Palestinian people, fighting to keep their homes, with overwhelming brutality. Not that it's going to happen, because the U.S. backs Israel 100%, but Palestine should be free.
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  17. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I remember the hand wringing and pearl clutching that went on when the Israelis claimed the Golan Heights. It's like no one wanted to acknowledge that you could drop artillery into Tel Aviv from there... :clyde:
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  18. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    always a bridesmaid, never a bride! :(
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  19. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    we would be disappointed if you didn't think this way.
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  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  21. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I do not find the US supporting Isreal to be something surprising considering how it was created and got from the east to west coast. We had our palestinians, and we call them native americans. The americas had multiple european colonizers who came over and raped and murdered the indigenous people, and no one gave a fuck. Then the colonizers broke away with a violent war in the US because they wanted the money and land for themselves. Then the US won and we cheer for those heroes as they marched to the pacific killing and brutalizing everyone they could from here to their in a genocide.

    Why do we expect any respect for the palestinian lives to come from places that never had any respect for the lives or lands they just decided were theirs despite all the people living there?

    Texas just banned telling the truth about racism in US history class. We just almost had the religious right attempt to take over thew US sot hey could start lynching blacks, jews, and GLBT people like their god intended. If donald Trump took control of our military and police, what do you think they would have done after hanging Mike Pence and congress? The only reason we were able to win this country without missiles being lobbed at us from the natives is because we barely had missiles at the time. The militaries of the colonizers of the US (Including the US military) wiped the nativbes out and there was some brutal occasions where the colonizers got slaughtered by those fighting for their lands. They just could not fight to hold their lands forever, and just like the palestinians they died.

    But what do we really expect Biden to do differently when he has always been against muslims and pro-Isreal violence against them. This is nothing new for Biden. Every hypocritical asshole who voted for Biden and now is complaining about this should shut their fucking cake holes and remember this blood is on your hands. Biden is never going to stop US backing and funding for the palestinian genocide. Him and his people cannot even admit they have a right to defend themselves, and they think these people should just die peacefully for the colonizers the US put there to kill them all.
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  22. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    First, we need to stop treating being against the Israeli government's abhorrent actions as being anti-semitic. That stops a lot of rational debate in it's tracks. (although I fully realize there are a lot of anti-semites who are anti-Israel, as long as the commentary is about specific verifiable and deplorable actions, and not religion, that's not an issue). This is not a religious issue, it's a political issue.

    Second, we need to stop pretending this is about religion. This isn't some millenia old conflict, this is a conflict a few generations in making at the most generous.

    Third, the US needs to stop propping up an apartheid regime. While I disagree with violence from both sides, Israel doesn't need much help anymore. It's very clearly become the European colonial power subjugating the native population.

    Fourth, I think this should be settled in a best of three bowling competition, because that's just as rational as any approach that has been attempted so far.
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  23. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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    [​IMG]
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  24. Fisherman's Worf

    Fisherman's Worf I am the Seaman, I am the Walrus, Qu-Qu-Qapla'!

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    I told that Kraut a fucking thousand times, I don't roll on shabbos!
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  25. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    It all goes back to Israel's land grabbing, ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies. While they are doing those things, claiming that their murdering children is "self defense" will get no hearing from me. And the US is responsible for all of this as Israel's benefactor.
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  26. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Israel rejects Hamas truce offer; ministers vote to intensify Gaza strikes (ynetnews.com)

    And this explanation I saw elsewhere which honestly holds a lot of water to me:

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  27. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I think the problem with the whole thing with Isreal and a lot of the middle east is there is very little the people on the outside can actually do.

    IMO the best we could do is provide a place for people who want to escape to other places and live in their communities under their rules, a place. Basically what we consider the innocent people who just want to exist in peace. But even that becomes problematic in certain ways because our nations are not beyond the bigotries and to come to another country would not be to live as their own community.

    I have talked to jews and muslims from that area, and they had to want something different and leave what they considered their homes to be outsiders in countries that were not theirs and they were a minority in. Maybe the people there do not want to leave and live in a peace elsewhere? I guess I should say there is a big group thaty does not want that. It seems there is a big group that wants to fight for their ways and ownership of their land. I am sure part of thaty comes with a desire to kill those who have wronged them.

    The better of us look to all the death and we see from the outside a pointless tragedy, but do the people who are fighting see that? I am sure some of them do, but that is just a different group of them.

    Don't get me wrong in my criticism of Biden as the only thing I wish was that my contribution to america was not a contribution to the horrors over there. We have our own horrors to stop. when those people fight over the lands they have to live in I can see a purpose for them. What the fuck would we be fighting for over there? It is not peace. We are not going to go over there and stand in the middle of both sides and stop them from fighting. No involvement we have is going to end in peace even if we decided to win it for one side or the other.

    I would just really rather our monies and efforts go to helping our poor people and maybe giving a chance to those immigrants who want to be americans a place to go. We can't even do that simple task. It would just be nice to have someplace in the world where people could live and respect other people's right to live.
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  28. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    I knew if I blew the dog whistle, the anti-Semite would show himself. :?:
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  29. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    So there was unrest in Palestine, with legitimate greivances and police faced off against protesters in massive clashes.

    Then Hamas started indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel.

    Current reports are over 1500 rockets fired in 3 days.

    The assumption that this is all on one side is ludicrous. Hamas escalated, and firing thousands of rockets is by any definition an act of war. Israel retaliated, but even when they demolished 3 high rise buildings they claimed were Hamas operation centers, they fired warning shots first, and there are no reports of casualties.

    The UN secretary-general has condemned Hamas' actions.

    Netanyahu is definitely appreciating this - anything to distract from his own legal issues and to grasp onto power.
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  30. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    That is horrible, but what the fuck are we supposed to do about it? What are you proposing?

    There seems to be a lot of analysis and whole lot of nothing on solutions. Maybe I should say there are a whole lot of solutions that are not going to happen. We don't really have superman or god to call and make them stop doing this. Using the world's militaries in regards to this is like let us all start fighting over this bullshit.

    I know it is horrible, but what is the solution we are all ignoring?
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