2020 Presidential Primaries

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Nova, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Rebel Scum

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    Is that why she's been constantly inserting herself in the conversation and why she's been blaming others for her failure for the past three years?
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  2. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    2650021F-6D9A-4136-A221-DEA4A87C36DF.jpeg

    Okay, I’ll bite, what’s an “unnatural person” if Tulsi’s a “natural person”?
  3. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Rebel Scum

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    You know, Vampires, Werewolves, Mummies, Zombies, things like that.
  4. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

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  5. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Because Hillary kills people all the time, doncha know.
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  6. Quest

    Quest Liberty and Justice Staff Member Administrator

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    :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
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  7. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    If you don't like his policies then you really should not vote for him. However, the idea that he is not authentic is created because many people do like what he says and people are trying to pretend he does not mean it despite his actions backing up his words over a long career of activism and fighting for these issues. This is as opposed to a Biden who is the senator for MBNA who has worked against things like bussing and is pretending he is not a republican.
  8. Tererun

    Tererun Magical Girl

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    According to WOD rules and a lot of lore werewolves are actually on the side of nature.
  9. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    The excerpt is faked. Here is the actual document.

    https://d3ba7j4nna908t.cloudfront.net/attachments/Tulsi-HRC_2020-01-22_Complaint_filed.pdf
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  10. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    All politics are identity politics.

    such propaganda is designed to manipulate the shallow.

    (Also, Ball has been in the tank for Bernie for ages)
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  11. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    I'm just really enjoying our resident Noble Libertarian flying to the defense of Bernie Sanders

    So many layers to unpack
  12. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    One more time

    Warren is - in so VERY many ways - NOT Bernie.

    Bot in her worldview.
    Not in her personality (which sadly hurts her with the Cranky Old Man caucus)
    Not in her demonstrated accomplishments.
    Not in her history (have you SEEN the stuff they have on Bernie from before he went to Congress?!!?1 Holy SHIT!)
    Not in her prospects.

    The single laziest trope of this election cycle is "Warren or Bernie" as if there is a direct equivalence and the only differentiation is who brought their penis to work.
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  13. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    BOOM. Thank you.

    This right here is that of which I have been screaming. A LOT of marginally sympathetic potential Bernie voters, of the sort only recently glowing up to him in the polls, haven't met the dude Republicans will be eager to introduce them to. I fear impending party (and by extension national) suicide. I think Trump is a uniquely vulnerable incumbent that in a sane world should lose to a random roadkill possum - but it increasingly seems we're no longer in a sane world and while I still think that Trump is insanely beatable, nominating Bernie is the single best move if the plan is to fuck that up.

    For example:
    https://www.theguardian.com/comment...U6hExItaxOmu8cQD2Su8toy7AwGgzzgFJRNJSwKjs4BOE
    The chances of Sanders actually becoming president, however, are also close to nil. I say this because in 2016 I got a glimpse of the Republican party’s opposition research book on Sanders, which was so massive it had to be transported on a cart. The Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald, who got to see some of its contents, declared that “it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn [Sanders] apart.”

    According to Eichenwald, the book includes damning material such as the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to Texas where it would be dumped in a poor Hispanic community, that he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and that he appeared at a 1985 rally in Nicaragua at which Sandinista supporters chanted “Here, there / the Yankee will die.” And then there’s Sanders’ fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men…

    After the Trump campaign and Fox News got through weaponizing this research, the usual conservative charges against Sanders – that his domestic program would cost nearly $100tn over the next decade, that he would ban individual health insurance, send taxes into the stratosphere, and sympathize with terrorists and leftwing regimes – would seem almost benign.
    The Republican campaign against any Democratic presidential candidate is guaranteed to be ugly, but against Sanders it would be gruesome. The result most likely would be a Democratic wipeout on the scale of Labour’s under Jeremy Corbyn.

    That’s why Sanders is the preferred Democratic nominee of Trump and his aides. It explains otherwise puzzling stories such as Trump coming to Sanders’ defense against Warren’s no-female-president claim, saying sexism is “not his deal”. And while living in Washington has made me cynical in some ways, I would not be in the least surprised if conservative dollars are swelling the coffers of Our Revolution, Sanders’ dark-money Super Pac which doesn’t have to disclose its donors.


    For example:
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...OvD2ibUx834xf2uo28GItBbnveeSF6yf3BGaytMZMbqLc
    "Bernie Sanders campaigned for the Socialist Workers Party in the 1980 and 1984 presidential campaigns and was investigated by the FBI for his ties to the Marxist group.

    Sanders has always played down the extent of his involvement with the party, which included radicals who praised the Soviet Union and Cuban communists, and has denied ever being a member. Asked in 1988 about his role as an SWP elector in 1980, he said: "I was asked to put my name on the ballot and I did, that’s true." In fact, his ties to the party are deep and enduring.
    .....
    But his personal files from his time as mayor of Burlington, from 1981 to 1989, archived at the University of Vermont, show that he supported and campaigned for the communist SWP and maintained a close relationship with its senior members. While Democrats campaigned for President Jimmy Carter in 1980 and Walter Mondale in 1984, Sanders spent the Reagan era supporting fringe Marxists with no chance of reaching the White House.
    .....
    In 1980, Sanders "proudly endorsed and supported" Andrew Pulley, the party's presidential candidate, who once said that American soldiers should "take up their guns and shoot their officers." Sanders was one of three electors for Pulley on the Vermont ballot, stating in a press release: "I fully support the SWP's continued defense of the Cuban revolution."

    Four years later, he backed and campaigned for the SWP presidential nominee Mel Mason, a former Black Panther, saying it was important for there to be "fundamental alternatives to capitalist ideology." During the campaign, Mason praised the Russian and Chinese revolutions and said: "The greatest example of a socialist government is Cuba, and Nicaragua is right behind, but it's still developing."

    "I think Bernie was pretty in-the-camp with us and other socialist organizations," Mason told the Washington Examiner in an interview. "We talked regularly and he also said that if I ever made it to Burlington, he was going to give me a key to the city."
    .....
    During Pulley's White House run in 1980, he called for the abolition of the U.S. military and the nationalization of "virtually all private industry," as well as the abolition of the military budget and the establishment of "official ... 'solidarity' with the revolutionary regimes in Iran, Nicaragua, Grenada and Cuba," according to a New York Times report at the time.

    During that same campaign, Pulley hailed the Cuban revolution as a model for the U.S. and claimed that "racism [had] been abolished" on the island. His running mate, Matilde Zimmermann, described the contention that Cubans lived under a dictatorship as American "propaganda."

    "Working people here could learn a lot from the Cuban example," Zimmermann said .

    In 1979, members of SWP's leadership circulated a document that called for "the destruction of the bourgeois state apparatus," arguing such an act "is a necessary prerequisite for the conquest of state power by the working class."

    Archives of the SWP's official paper, the Militant, demonstrate a devotion to what its writers believe was the "true" purpose of the Russian Revolution, before it was supposedly corrupted by Josef Stalin.

    _________________________________
    There's SO much more just in this one article, none of it good. The counter-argument could only be "well he doesn't think that anymore" but that won't matter AT ALL to those persuadable voters in the General Election (also it's disingenuous as fuck for Bernie supporters to say that it matters that Warren used to be a Republican but it doesn't matter that Bernie used to be a Marxist but that's beside the point)

    It's also not the same as the "Republicans will call any Democrat socialist" evasion. That is true, but no other Dem candidate has provided the GOP REAMS of material from their own mouth saying effectively "fuck yeah I am" about worse than socialism.


    And no, there's nothing even microscopically similar to this with Warren.
    The DNA shit? Except for a tiny handful of Native activist, everyone who care about this AT ALL already owns the red hat.
    "My daddy was a..." and "I got fired for being pregnant"? Yeah, we're going to run an honesty campaign in defense of Donald Trump, that'll work.

    The fact that this simpleton stuff ever even comes up is proof how clean she is of ACTUAL weaponzeable history.
  14. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    OH! And don't think the GOP doesn't know about THIS bad boy.

    https://www.inquisitr.com/5271159/bernie-sanders-essay-cancer-women-orgasm/

    Someone on Facebook ask me if I really thought voters didn't already know all this stuff - fuck yeah I do!
    To begin with, he's only been on the national radar AT ALL for less than 5 years. Go into any hardware store in Michigan or Georgia in 2014 and ask them what they think of Bernie Sanders and 80% wouldn't have a single clue who you're talking about.

    Beyond that, here's a rule of thumb: whatever you currently think about the information level of the average voter, before you do anything revise that estimate downwards by at least 50%.

    One example: the poll that came out the other day in the Boston Globe contained a quote from a dude who insisted he could never support Warren because he was firmly opposed to "giving away free stuff." His solution? He was going to stick with Bernie, whom he supported in 2016. So dude is either knowingly purposely lying about his dislike for Warren, or he's bee a firm Bernie backer for 4+ years without ever discovering that Bernie is the King of "free stuff"

    Given what we've seen of voters, almost certainly the latter. Do you think THAT guy has ANY clue what Bernie was up to during the Reagan Administration? That dude isn't the exception, he's the rule. Just because those of us on the left are aware of the history doesn't mean one voter in 10, among those people not already hard core in his tribe, have ever heard any of it - particularly in a negative frame.
  15. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Also it helps when we have Bernie campaign staffers in various states saying things like:

    Still working for Sanders. Sanders hasn't even said anything about him. The campaign however has locked it's social media accounts.

    And that's not even just one guy. There is another in South Carolina:

    Please nominate Sanders....... :ramen:



  16. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  17. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    I don't hold being Republican against Elizabeth Warren (I was Republican at one point in my life, too!), and the circles I travel in she is the second choice for most Bernie supporters. That said, it sure would be nice if the "Bernie Bros" bullshit would stop. Most of Bernie's supporters are women. He also has the most support of black and Latinx voters under 50, and is the most popular choice for Hispanic voters. So the "Bernie Bros" thing needs to die. The Clinton campaign came up with it, just as she did the "Obama boys," (which thankfully died out, yikes!).

    Bernie is constantly being ignored, dismissed, and downplayed by much of the mainstream news media. When he is in the spotlight, it's usually to point out something he apparently did and how really awful it is, and you should read it, isn't it awful?! It's always good to take news sources with a grain of salt anyway, but do you honestly think they're going to fairly cover the guy who thinks corporate giants need to be brought down to size? Fuck no. Hell, Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, what interest would he have in pushing Sanders as a good option? Same goes for CNN (owned by Ted Turner), MSNBC (owned by Comcast), and so on. Sanders has called all of these corporations out for how they handle the news. Look at how they covered Trump. They were grossly irresponsible, and they were making money hand over fist because you mention Donald Trump and you've got eyeballs locked on whatever it is you're about to say.

    You have to know your sources, know their biases as best as you can, and reframe things with that in mind. I admit there are left wing publications I like, but I watch for the accuracy of their content. It's fine if you call someone an asshole, but you better have a damned good (and verifiable) reason as to why you are.

    As for Bernie and "electability," no one is electable until they're elected. Until that happens, they're just popular, and we've seen how well polls handle the outcome of elections. Even Nate Silver, who is considered a wunderkind when it comes to polling, missed the mark on Hillary, and it's because our biases will get the best of us, even when we have math on our side, because it still has to be filtered through our human perceptions. Humans don't math well, and our social behaviors aren't yet pinned down by algorithms that can tell our future, not yet.

    So just some things to keep in mind when talking about who is and is not electable. If we went by that, Donald Trump would have never made it past the first debate. They have to be helped, and the media helped.

    Sources:
    https://theintercept.com/2019/04/06/bernie-sanders-latino-hispanic-voters/
    http://millennialreview.org/2019/03...ign-helped-create-twitters-worst-attack-line/
    https://www.teenvogue.com/story/linda-sarsour-bernie-sanders-women-of-color-support
    https://www.vox.com/2019/3/7/18216899/bernie-sanders-bro-base-polling-2020-president
    https://www.bernieblackout.com/bias/
  18. TheLonelySquire

    TheLonelySquire Fresh Meat

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    I think we all know the answer to that.
  19. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  20. Amaris

    Amaris Hopeful

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    [​IMG]
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  21. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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  22. Federal Farmer

    Federal Farmer Rebel Scum

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    Shit, I thought he was dead.:lol:
  23. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Nate gave Trump a reasonable chance of beating Clinton.
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  24. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    30%.
  25. Bailey

    Bailey It's always Christmas Eve Super Moderator

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    Yeah, in a scenario pretty similar to what happened.
  26. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorta. He assumed that if Trump won, it'd be without getting Florida. And one can argue that because Nate didn't say that Hillary had a 100% chance of winning his statements about the election were correct. If someone were in the hospital and the doctors said that they had only a 30% of surviving, one would consider it to be defying the odds if that person lived. Sure, it was within the realm of possibility, but nobody would say that it was wrong to declare that the person "beat the odds."
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  27. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Here's what Rogan said:

  28. The Night Funky

    The Night Funky BMF Staff Member Moderator

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    [​IMG]
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  29. T.R

    T.R Don't Care

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    All true. The Republicans will use the socialist label on the Democratic nominee regardless of who it is. But with Bernie the charges will easily stick because there is just too much evidence there to deny it. So the Democrats have to decide if that's the road that they really want their party to go with.
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  30. tafkats

    tafkats That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo! Moderator

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    Basically, everybody in this race except for Elizabeth Warren is still playing the game on Republican terms ... Sanders included.

    Here's how it works: First, Republicans make an assertion that they want to have blindly accepted as fact. Something like "Having the government guarantee health care to all Americans is socialist!"

    The majority of Democrats follow the Biden-Buttigieg model, which is to say "Golly gee, Mr. Republican, you're right! Universal health care is socialist and socialism is bad, and that's why my plan will still preserve insurance company profits!"

    Then there's the Sanders approach, which is to say "Fuck yeah I'm a socialist! Wouldn't it be awesome if we were more like CUBA?" Which is a more daring approach, to be sure, but it's still accepting the bullshit premise in the first place.

    We need somebody who can articulately make the point that it is no more socialist to have universal health care than it is to have universal K-12 education or taxpayer-funded police departments.
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    • Winner Winner x 1